Freethought & Rationalism Archive

HuggyBear · 11-05-2003, 04:55 PM

If Jesus is the person who he said he was, and truely performed the miracles the Bible says he did, then that obviouslly affirms the exsitence of God.

1)What scientific evidence exists to disprove the existence of Jesus as a man?

2)Further more, what reasoning can disprove his relation to God?

Loaded question.. glhf!

Goliath · 11-05-2003, 04:56 PM

I have never asserted that Jesus didn't exist, let alone was not who he claimed he was. The burden of proof--as always--is on the theist to prove the theist's positive claims.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Spenser · 11-05-2003, 04:57 PM

Personally I like The Jesus Puzzle.

I find this one rather compelling as well.

extinctionist · 11-05-2003, 05:05 PM

1) None that I know of. There probably was someone called Jesus born in Nazareth around that time, my guess is he was the result of an affair, although that is pure speculation.

2) Again, none... if you believe in God. I don't, and so I will point you in the direction of threads arguing against the existence of God in this instance.

If that question was a devious attempt at confusing atheists into avoiding the point, which I suspect it was, you'll have to try a lot harder. And Goliath is right, of course.

Viti · 11-05-2003, 05:07 PM

Jesus was a very common name at the time in that area. I am sure there were dozens of them.

HuggyBear · 11-05-2003, 05:13 PM

Well, I really don't have time to go through the Jesus Puzzle right now...

But as far as the existence of Nazareth:

Jewish tombs containing artifiacts from the first century have been found where the outskirts of "Nazareth" would be. Appropriate, as Jewish tombs were traditionally located on the outskirts of town.

Inscriptions in Aramaic of relocation of a single family of priests in Jerusalem dating to A.D. 70, after the fall of Jerusalem, state the priests being stationed to Nazareth

Of course the town was not mentioned by Josephus, scholars speculate the town to be no bigger than 400 people, and to have been clustered in as many as four different proximity location... small enough and spread enough to easily be overlooked by a historian with a much busier agenda.

Mucko · 11-05-2003, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LadyShea
Jesus was a very common name at the time in that area.

It's pretty common in Mexico, too.

HuggyBear · 11-05-2003, 05:21 PM

While there may have also been more than one Jesus living in the middle east at the time, there are a fair ammount of secular recordings of an event of a crucified Jewish man, claiming to be the messiah. One of these sources is Josephus himself; a very authenticated, secular source of historical documentation.

Additionally, Tacitus in the year A.D. 115 recorded, in detail, information the origin of the Christians which Nero persecuted A.D. 64 in the heart of Rome.

Spenser · 11-05-2003, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HuggyBear
Well, I really don't have time to go through the Jesus Puzzle right now...

There is a link there to a summation of it.

But as far as the existence of Nazareth:

Jewish tombs containing artifiacts from the first century have been found where the outskirts of "Nazareth" would be. Appropriate, as Jewish tombs were traditionally located on the outskirts of town.

Inscriptions in Aramaic of relocation of a single family of priests in Jerusalem dating to A.D. 70, after the fall of Jerusalem, state the priests being stationed to Nazareth

Of course the town was not mentioned by Josephus, scholars speculate the town to be no bigger than 400 people, and to have been clustered in as many as four different proximity location... small enough and spread enough to easily be overlooked by a historian with a much busier agenda.

The former two points are simply assertions, perhaps you have some links you could provide? Also I'm guessing you didn't read the article completely (you posted rather quickly), it deals with a lot of facts that shouldn't merely be ignored. You ask the question then don't have time for the answer, come on now...

HuggyBear · 11-05-2003, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spenser
The former two points are simply assertions, perhaps you have some links you could provide? Also I'm guessing you didn't read the article completely (you posted rather quickly), it deals with a lot of facts that shouldn't merely be ignored. You ask the question then don't have time for the answer, come on now...

I'm vaguely familiar with the article...

Sources:

Finegan, Jack The Archaeology of the New Testament. Princeton: Princeton Univ. Press, 1992

McRay, John Archaeology and the New Testament Grand Rapids: Baker, 1991

11-05-2003, 04:55 PM	#1
HuggyBear Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 43	Prooving the existence of God through the affirmation of Jesus and is works... If Jesus is the person who he said he was, and truely performed the miracles the Bible says he did, then that obviouslly affirms the exsitence of God. 1)What scientific evidence exists to disprove the existence of Jesus as a man? 2)Further more, what reasoning can disprove his relation to God? Loaded question.. glhf!

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11-05-2003, 04:56 PM	#2
Goliath Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Fargo, ND, USA Posts: 1,849	I have never asserted that Jesus didn't exist, let alone was not who he claimed he was. The burden of proof--as always--is on the theist to prove the theist's positive claims. Sincerely, Goliath

11-05-2003, 04:57 PM	#3
Spenser Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Don't you wish your boy friend got drunk like me, Posts: 7,808	Personally I like The Jesus Puzzle. I find this one rather compelling as well.

11-05-2003, 05:05 PM	#4
extinctionist Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Sheffield, UK Posts: 1,440	1) None that I know of. There probably was someone called Jesus born in Nazareth around that time, my guess is he was the result of an affair, although that is pure speculation. 2) Again, none... if you believe in God. I don't, and so I will point you in the direction of threads arguing against the existence of God in this instance. If that question was a devious attempt at confusing atheists into avoiding the point, which I suspect it was, you'll have to try a lot harder. And Goliath is right, of course.

11-05-2003, 05:07 PM	#5
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	Jesus was a very common name at the time in that area. I am sure there were dozens of them.

11-05-2003, 05:13 PM	#6
HuggyBear Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 43	Well, I really don't have time to go through the Jesus Puzzle right now... But as far as the existence of Nazareth: Jewish tombs containing artifiacts from the first century have been found where the outskirts of "Nazareth" would be. Appropriate, as Jewish tombs were traditionally located on the outskirts of town. Inscriptions in Aramaic of relocation of a single family of priests in Jerusalem dating to A.D. 70, after the fall of Jerusalem, state the priests being stationed to Nazareth Of course the town was not mentioned by Josephus, scholars speculate the town to be no bigger than 400 people, and to have been clustered in as many as four different proximity location... small enough and spread enough to easily be overlooked by a historian with a much busier agenda.

11-05-2003, 05:21 PM	#8
HuggyBear Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 43	While there may have also been more than one Jesus living in the middle east at the time, there are a fair ammount of secular recordings of an event of a crucified Jewish man, claiming to be the messiah. One of these sources is Josephus himself; a very authenticated, secular source of historical documentation. Additionally, Tacitus in the year A.D. 115 recorded, in detail, information the origin of the Christians which Nero persecuted A.D. 64 in the heart of Rome.

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