Originally Posted by brianscott1977

I think I understand the case you are making better, so let’s see if I can provide a more complete response:

If we assume that the disciples (for whatever reason) believe that Jesus rose from the dead so they went to the grave and found it empty. What could have happened?

1. They went to the wrong grave.

This suggests that the women (Mary Magdalene twice), Peter, John, and (I assume) later on the rest of the Apostles all went to the same wrong grave. So did the Pharisees if they wanted to dispute the resurrection. This doesn’t make much sense because eventually somebody would have gone to the right place.

2. Joseph of Arimathea moved the body.

Why would he do that? Why would he move Jesus’ body without telling Jesus closest followers, and why would he remain silent when people started to claim that Jesus rose from the dead?

Beyond this, when would he do it? Jesus was buried on Friday night and the women went to the tomb early Sunday morning. The only time in-between was Saturday, the Sabbath. A Jew like Joseph would never moved a buried body on the Sabbath. (I know that we are not told directly that he was Jewish, but the fact that he was a disciple of Jesus, was in Jerusalem during the Passover, had a tomb in Jerusalem, and had a distinctly Hebrew name all make a strong case for him being Jewish.)

3. Pilate or some Roman official moved the body.

Again, why? What reason could they have for doing this, and why would they remain silent when people claimed that Jesus rose from the dead?

4. Grave robbers.

Jesus was a crucified criminal who's body had not even been anointed, so he would have nothing of value on him. The grave robbers would have to have been after body parts. This did happen in the ancient world, but it was rare –most grave robbers wanted valuables.

This theory requires that these grave robbers who were after body parts went to this commentary of all commentaries, and of all the remains they chose to take the entire body of the one person who had disciples who believe that he had risen from the dead. At what point does an event become so unlikely that it take a divine act to beat the odds?

5. Something supernatural took place (like a resurrection).

And of course the first four options are dependent on the story of guards being false, a theory that thus far has only been supported with speculation.

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Consider the following:

1. The texts indicate that virtually none of Jesus' followers believed that he would rise from the dead. Jesus criticized his followers because of their unbelief. Even the empty tomb did not convince Peter and Mary Magdalene that Jesus had risen from the dead. Thus, Jesus' followers would not have gone around boasting that he would rise from the dead.

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

2. It is probable that virtually none of Jesus' opponents believed that he would rise from the dead. How could there have been a commotion about the tomb and a possible resurrection when practically no one except for Jesus believed that he would rise from the dead?

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

3. In his article "The Impossible Faith," Christian apologist James Holding quotes well-known Christian Bible scholar N.T. Wright as saying "This subversive belief in Jesus' Lordship, over against that of Caesar, was held in the teeth of the fact that Caesar had demonstrated his superior power in the obvious way, by having Jesus crucified. But the truly extraordinary thing is that this belief was held by a tiny group who, for the first two or three generations at least, could hardly have mounted a riot in a village, let alone a revolution in an empire."

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Who would have paid any attention to a tiny, uninfluential group of religious fanatics?

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

4. Because of the preceding evidence, it is very unlikely that guards would have been posted at the tomb.

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

5. Even if Jesus was buried in Joseph of Arimathea's tomb, and guards were posted at the tomb, and it was found empty, without appearances by Jesus, the best case that anyone could have made would have been that Jesus spiritually rose from the dead and did not make any appearances. Thus, all of the accounts of the events at the tomb are not useful for Christians as an apologetic confirmation of the Resurrection.

Originally Posted by brianscott1977

And of course the first four options are dependent on the story of guards being false, a theory that thus far has only been supported with speculation.

I agree that the group was tiny and uninfluential at the time of Jesus death. Probably the only people who were concerned with the followers of Jesus were the established religious and political order of Jerusalem at that time. They would be the people who would post a guard at the tomb.

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

He will not move on to something else if he keeps insisting that the guards are historical.