Freethought & Rationalism Archive

rlogan · 12-28-2003, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto
There was certainly enough material involving crucifixion for an imaginative author to work with to produce the gospel Passion Narrative.

I'm not sayin nuthin' to skew the poll. like composite school...

Thomas Ash · 12-29-2003, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto
Actually, there were no crucified gods. A certain Kersey Graves wrote a tract in the 19th century claiming there were 16 crucified saviors preceding Jesus, but his work does not stand up to modern critical scrutiny.

There were, however, gods or saviors who died, descended into the underworld, and were reborn or restored, so the second part of your sentence is correct. There were also Jewish heros or rebels who were crucified. There was certainly enough material involving crucifixion for an imaginative author to work with to produce the gospel Passion Narrative.

'kay, thanks Toto.

There were really no similar Greek stories, involving Dinoysus or something? I must have misremembered, or got it from a bad source. I'm curious to know about these "Jewish heros and rebels" and the stories going around that could have been a source for the Jesus one, though. Was it really 'in the air' enough that it would/could have merged into the Jesus story even if he was never crucified?

Amaleq13 · 12-29-2003, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Ash
I'm curious to know about these "Jewish heros and rebels" and the stories going around that could have been a source for the Jesus one, though. Was it really 'in the air' enough that it would/could have merged into the Jesus story even if he was never crucified?

Enough that Josephus reports about the crucifixions under Antiochus Epiphanes (175-164BCE) and Alexander Jannaeus (103-76BCE).

From Kirby's website edition of Whiston: (http://www.earlychristianwritings.co...s/josephus.htm)

"But the best men, and those of the noblest souls, did not regard him, but did pay a greater respect to the customs of their country than concern as to the punishment which he threatened to the disobedient; on which account they every day underwent great miseries and bitter torments; for they were whipped with rods, and their bodies were torn to pieces, and were crucified, while they were still alive, and breathed." (Ant. 12.5.4)

"Now as Alexander fled to the mountains, six thousand of the Jews hereupon came together [from Demetrius] to him out of pity at the change of his fortune; upon which Demetrius was afraid, and retired out of the country; after which the Jews fought against Alexander, and being beaten, were slain in great numbers in the several battles which they had; and when he had shut up the most powerful of them in the city Bethome, he besieged them therein; and when he had taken the city, and gotten the men into his power, he brought them to Jerusalem, and did one of the most barbarous actions in the world to them; for as he was feasting with his concubines, in the sight of all the city, he ordered about eight hundred of them to be crucified; and while they were living, he ordered the throats of their children and wives to be cut before their eyes." (Ant. 13.14.2)

View Poll Results: Which description do you tend to favor?
Literal	4	5.26%
Historical Jesus	10	13.16%
Composite	26	34.21%
Myth	16	21.05%
Accreted Legends Fabrication	8	10.53%
Consparitorial Fabrication	4	5.26%
Undecided; not in any particular "school"	8	10.53%
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

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