Onias

Both. All of the players in the gospels are fictional. But they sometimes reflect the historical people of that era.

aa5874

Fiction does not represent history.

Now, Did you not state that you do not think Jesus was historical?

Well, the fiction in the Gospels represents fictional characters.

aa5874

The more I examine Onias' post the more flawed his statement becomes.

It makes very little sense that Roman or Helenistic sympathizers wrote the gospels to ridicule Jewish Messianic aspirants when the Jesus of the Gospels was IMMORTAL and declared to be the Son of God who was Raised the dead.

It makes very little that Roman and Helenistic sympathizers wrote the gospels to ridicule Jewish Messiah claimants when the Jesus of Gospels was a miracle worker who healed the sick, made the blind see, the deaf hear , the dumb talk and raised the dead.

mountainman

How did the fiction become history in the first place?

There must have been a controversy if people thought Jesus was fiction.


Have a look at the "Historia Augusta".




εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

aa5874

Perhaps a better question would be when did people of antiquity realize the Jesus story was fiction?

The story of Jesus as the Son of a God must have completely plausible.

If Jesus was claimed to be or even an actual human militant then the story would be rejected as fiction.

If Jesus was a human militant then it could not have been believed that he walked on the sea, it could not be believed that he transfigured and that he resurrected.

The story of Jesus that has been found is that he was the Son of God.

Once Jesus was claimed to be the Son of God then everything that is written about him could be believed to have happened regardless of the chronology.

The story of Jesus was known to be fiction when all the human beings associated with Jesus could not be accounted for.

The story of Jesus was known to be fiction by those who invented Acts of the Apostles and the Pauline letters.

Who wrote the monstrous fables called Acts of the Apostles and the Pauline letters?

Acts of the Apostles and the Pauline letters appear to have been fabricated very late--perhaps the 4th century--but at least sometime between c305-360 CE before "Against the Galileans" and After the writings of Arnobius' "Against the Heathen".

Onias

aa,
Of course the miracle-working JC was not historical. Even aside from his miracles, JC was not historical. (And even though Pilate was historical, the Pilate of the gospels was not historical since he is made to say fictional statements therein.)

But fiction can reflect historical people and events.
Onias

Onias

Btw, although I entitled this thread "Was the Original Jesus a Militant", I should have put Jesus in quotes: Was the Original 'Jesus' a Militant?

because I was suggesting the original 'Jesus' was not the fictional gospel Jesus but another person, a historical person who inspired the gospel author to create a tale that presented a previous historical person who was largely the antithesis of gospel Jesus.

maryhelena

Name and evidence for the historicity of the figure you are referencing....

Onias, put your cards on the table. Who was this figure that you keep referring to?? Unless you can do this - your talking through your hat!

aa5874

You need evidence from antiquity to make such a suggestion unless you are dealing with guesswork.

This is BC&H.

Please, tell us the real name of that supposed historical person.

When, where, what?? Where are your sources??

Onias

See my reply to Mary.

Btw, everything is guesswork unless we find more manuscripts to confirm our suspicions.

Mythicism as the source for the gospel stories is also guesswork.