Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 06-14-2008, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

There is no information at all in Justin Martyr's extant writings to confirm or indicate that Justin surely knew "Paul".

Justin never mentioned the name Paul, the Acts of the Apostles, the letters to the seven Churches or epistles to Timothy, Titus or Philemon.

The notion that Justin would not mention the name of heretics is contradicted by Justin himself when he mentioned Marcion, probably the most notorious heretic.

And, based on the NT, it is extremely dubious to think that Paul who would have had over 100 years of continuous history with the Christian Church who preached Christ crucified, resurrected and the son of the God of the Jews could have been coopted by the non-orthodox.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilgodfrey

If Justin knew of Marcion so well then it is hard to avoid thinking he must have known of Paul, too.

Marcion and "Paul" lived in two different time zones.

"Paul" it is claimed was killed during the time of Nero, sometime before 68 CE, however Marcion was alive, according to Justin while he was writing one of his books, 150 years after the birth of Jesus. So, Marcion was living around the middle of the second century, I don't have to think hard to realise that Marcion most likely did not know Paul.

And Justin knowledge of "Paul", based on his writings, appear to be zero.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilgodfrey

As for the Paul being long known to have taught about Jesus, all the points you listed appear to have been taught also by Marcion --except for one: that Jesus was "the son of the God of the Jews". Jesus was the son of God in both Marcionism and Paul.

Based on Justin Martyr, Marcion's Jesus was fundamentally different to Jesus of the NT, Marcion's Jesus only appeared to be real and had nothing at all to do with the God of the Jews.

Marcion's Jesus came from a greater God.

neilgodfrey · 06-14-2008, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Marcion and "Paul" lived in two different time zones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Based on Justin Martyr, Marcion's Jesus was fundamentally different to Jesus of the NT, Marcion's Jesus only appeared to be real and had nothing at all to do with the God of the Jews.

Marcion's Jesus came from a greater God.

Thanks for clearing all that up for me. Looks like I was really mixed up there.

Doug Shaver · 06-15-2008, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

Detering, in "The Falsified Paul", expresses his view that "the Pauline letters in their entirety are inauthentic." on page 3, and makes a good case that Paul is a renamed Simon Magus.

Opportunity came sooner than I thought it would. I'm reading it now.

Fascinating. Thank you for recommending it.

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