Gamera

Again your knowledge of Christianity is suspect.

The world is random. That's an imperical fact. And Jesus says so too:

"God sends the rain on the just and unjust alike."

No one can discern a moral purpose in history. If you could, then everybody who is rational would believe in God and there would be no need for faith. Smart people would believe in God and dumb people woudn't. But this is contrary to what the gospel is about, which is salvation to everybody by acceptance of God's love.

aa5874

'Text' is basically information in a written form and can be 'factual' or religious. So when the text of a newspaper claims that the democrats have taken over the Congress, then it is regarded as factual. However, when text from the bible claims Jesus cast devils out of a young boy, it is of a religious nature but completely untrue.

Johnny Skeptic

But God does not want everyone to hear the Gospel message. Hundreds of millions of people have died without hearing it because God deliberately withheld it from them. That is quite strange because Jesus told the disciples to spread the very same message that God did not have any interest whatsoever in spreading himself. As the Gospel began to spread, God discriminated against people who did not live in close proximity to the Middle East, which is exactly what is to be expected if he does not exist. Kosmin and Lachman wrote a book that is titled 'One Nation Under God.' The authors provide a lot of documented research that shows that in the U.S., the chief factors that determine religious beliefs are geography, family, race, ethnicity, gender, and age. Those factors are entirely secular, which is exactly what is to be expected if God does not exist.

Regarding faith, it is you whose knowledge of Christianity is suspect. Consider the following Scriptures:

John 2:23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. (KJV)

John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. (KJV)

John 6:2 And a great multitude followed him, because they saw his miracles which he did on them that were diseased. (KJV)

John 10:37-38 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (KJV)

Acts 14:3 So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to do miraculous signs and wonders. (NIV)

Johnny: If faith was all that was necessary, with all of that tangible evidence, AND the presence of the Holy Spirit, why did God provide even more tangible confirmations? John says that Jesus criticized Thomas for wanting tangible evidence that he had risen from the dead, but that is not likely since God provided plenty of tangible confirmations before and after the Holy Spirit came to the church. Jesus' words did not confirm his miracles. His miracles confirmed his words. Faith does not provide any benefits to God. In addition, if God's chief desire is that people hear the Gospel message, his methods of achieving that goal are not nearly as effective as they could be.

The Old Testament and the New Testament provide a lot of evidence that God did not act in a random manner, but today, there is good evidence that all tangible events are determined entirely at random according to the laws of physics. How do you explain this? Even if God originally created the weather and did not control it after that, today's weather is most certainly not random since it can only do what God created it to do. God is directly responsible for Hurricane Katrina, that is, unless you believe that the weather originally created itself and chose where it wanted to go. If God created the weather, then he created hurricanes, and we know that no one likes hurricanes except for God and the Devil.

Do you believe that the Devil is a living being? Do you believe that there is life after death?

James 2:14-22 say "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?"

James said that if you have food and refuse to feed a hungry person that you are vain, and that your faith is dead. Obviously, God is a hypocrite. He tells Christians that if they refuse to feed hungry people that they are vain and that their faith is dead, but hypocritically has allowed millions of people, including millions of Christians, to die slow, painful deaths from starvation. If God does not want to feed people himself, he most certainly would not have told Christians to feed people. If providing food for people is a good thing, then surely it is a good thing for humans AND for God. I am not aware of any legitimate purpose that is served by telling people to feed hungry people but refusing to feed people yourself.

Regarding 2 Peter 3:9, however you interpret the word "perish", it is obvious that God is willing that some people will not hear the Gospel message who would accept it if they heard it. That is reason enough on its own for people to reject him.

rhutchin

The video is factual. It is providing a truthful account of the actions that occur. You are noting, correctly, that we may misinterpret what is happening because we can lack context. If a person is recorded as praising God, then the video is accurately recording that event. What we may be missing is the additional factual information that he is doing so because another man holds a gun to his head. We can have truth (e.g., a verse in the Bible) but lack context to understand properly that truth.

rhutchin

You are confused. It is NON-Christians who hope to gain as a result of their goodness. No Christian hopes to gain as a result of their goodness. They know that this is not possible.

JPD

Biblegod is holding the (potentially) ultimate (undetectable) gun to our heads. Let's build our entire lives on reacting to this imaginary threat.

JPD

So heaven is not a gain then?

rhutchin

Heaven is a gift and in that sense, it is a gain. Heaven cannot be gained as a consequence of good works, goodness, or whatever a person does.

Johnny Skeptic

The Bible says that God is loving. If that is true, God would want everyone to have the opportunity to accept him or reject him. He would give everyone equal opportunity to become saved. The God of the Bible is willing that some will perish, meaning that some will not get the gift of salvation. God deliberately withholds information that some people would accept if they were aware of the information. Rational minded and fair minded people are not able to will themselves to endorse unwarranted and unfair favoritism.

rhutchin

The Bible is available to all. Your argument is that people go to extraordinary efforts sometimes to keep people from reading the Bible and learning that they have sinned and are accountable to God for that sin. They do not know that they can cry out to God for forgiveness.

All this because God has given people the freedom to do that which they want. I think your argument is that God should not allow people to be free with regard to issues of salvation.