Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Magus55 · 10-13-2003, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cojana
I don't look at Jesus's murder as a sacraficial deed, Christains accept christ death as a saCRAFICE for thier sins, my personal morals can not accept Jesus's death as payment for my fuch-ups, its immoral to me, I used to accept Jesus's imaGE on the cross too, until one of my cousins tried to take a picture of my grandfather in agonising state before he died, I thought it was horribly ugly and immoral, then it down on me, Jesus are in agony on the cross, now I think its immoraly ugly, by the way, I'm not religious, I suspect a God,just in case, I'm seculer,just printing opinion,nothing more,...

It is ugly what Jesus had to go through. Its gross and horrible. Yet, He went through it for no other reason than to save us. He left Heaven to suffer on the cross, and be treated like crap by humanity, and did He deserve it? No, He was perfect. Did He have to do it? No, He chose too. The sacrifice is important to Christians because of how awful it was, and why God went through with it.

Jhn 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Magus55 · 10-13-2003, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sullster
The wooden cross was the established method of execution in the Roman Empire of that time.

The fact that the religious system which arose from the supposed execution of its messiah, chose a representation of that execution method as its symbol, makes me wonder what such a symbol would have been in modern times.

What if the "saviour" had been beheaded in Revolutionary France? Imagine seeing churhes will Guillotines on the tops of spires. What if the "messiah" had been juiced by an electric chair? Can you imagine the pope carring a stick with an electric chair on top?

The religious see the cross as such a dreamy wonderful thing. I see it as an execution machine, bloody and horrendous. Revolting iconography.

We see the cross as a great thing because of who was nailed to it. It's a symbol of God's love to us by suffering on the cross, so that we could be reconciled with Him.

Magus55 · 10-13-2003, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by joedad
And how would whites in the U.S. feel if the symbol of the Civil Rights movement was a lynched black man or a beaten and raped black girl? Imagine such a depiction being as common today as this crucified godman.

And of course it isn't just a black/white thing.

Well, since Jesus probably was fairly dark ( not black, but not white either) - what difference would that make?

Magus55 · 10-13-2003, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Opera Nut

Yes, Christianity is a soul killing death trip, and the crucifix/cross is the most obvious symbol of that perverted mindset, IMNSHO. Marilyn Manson has commented on this as well.

Yes, because Marilyn Manson is such a symbol of perfection, and a great role model...

MM looks and acts like he just came out of Hell.

Magus55 · 10-13-2003, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cojana
I see christains as selfish, selfobsorbed individuals, to accept Jesus's agonizing death as payment for thier sins are the epitome of immorality, a disgusting method of serving themselves rejuvination, a final sacraledge to thier Vanity and Greed,egad!! :banghead:

And we see atheists as obnoxious, lost, God haters on the path to destruction. Are we gonna play the name calling game by making baseless generalizations?

Opera Nut · 10-13-2003, 01:16 PM

I thought Marilyn Manson was a stupid goof off until I read the interview in Rolling Stone where he made the comment about the cross being a symbol of Christianity.

How about if you go read that interview in Rolling Stone BEFORE you judge him on the basis of his looks????

sullster · 10-13-2003, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
We see the cross as a great thing because of who was nailed to it. It's a symbol of God's love to us by suffering on the cross, so that we could be reconciled with Him.

Magnus55,

Wouldn't it have been nicer to have your god show his love for you in a less revolting and bloody way? Your god has some severe mental issues. Maybe some problem from childhood. Perhaps he wasn't hugged enough.

In your diatribe against Cojana, I find one of your statements to be nonsense. Atheists don't hate god. How can they hate something that they do not believe exists?

Some christian you are. Didn't your guy say to "love your enemies". Come on dude, give us some of that christian love! Unless that rant you wrote to Cojana was christian love.

Magus55 · 10-13-2003, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sullster

Wouldn't it have been nicer to have your god show his love for you in a less revolting and bloody way? Your god has some severe mental issues. Maybe some problem from childhood. Perhaps he wasn't hugged enough.

God didn't create crucifixion. The Romans created that method. And how else was Jesus gonna reconcile us with God? What can Jesus give up other than His mortal life? He can't get rid of his divinity; thats a paradox. So His mortal life was the only option.

Quote:

In your diatribe against Cojana, I find one of your statements to be nonsense. Atheists don't hate god. How can they hate something that they do not believe exists?

You don't have to believe He exists to hate Him. You hate Him by default, just by rejecting His existence. And for people who don't believe in God, you really go on and on about how cruel and unjust some hypothetical model of God is. If God doesn't exist, He isn't cruel and He isn't unjust; He is nothing.

Cojana · 10-13-2003, 06:23 PM

Member Magnus55. your remarks on how magnificant Jesus are because he gave his life for you, are good for Jesus, but anyone that accepts his death as payment for your sins, are corrupt wishes, and worthy of the gnashing of teeth in Hell,!!

Autonemesis · 10-13-2003, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
The sacrifice is important to Christians because of how awful it was, and why God went through with it.

Jhn 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Where is Jesus now? Does he still exist, in your view? If so, then what was sacrificed?

10-13-2003, 01:16 PM	#16
Opera Nut Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,671	Ad hominem arguemtn--he looks funny,therefore his opinions are invalid I thought Marilyn Manson was a stupid goof off until I read the interview in Rolling Stone where he made the comment about the cross being a symbol of Christianity. How about if you go read that interview in Rolling Stone BEFORE you judge him on the basis of his looks????

10-13-2003, 06:23 PM	#19
Cojana Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Reseda, California Posts: 651	good for Jesus,not you, Member Magnus55. your remarks on how magnificant Jesus are because he gave his life for you, are good for Jesus, but anyone that accepts his death as payment for your sins, are corrupt wishes, and worthy of the gnashing of teeth in Hell,!!

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