adren@line

much of mystical doctrine is just now being confirmed by science and neuro-science, such as monism and the illussion of duality and the "I"/ego.

Perahelion

What did you say!! Please evolve.

Distorted."Reality"

Short and Sweet.

Nice post.

RAFH

No, isn't that what I wrote? Its pretty clear. As I said, atheism itself is a lack of belief in god(s) and theistic beings. That's it. Why do you theists keep wanting to make it into all these other things? Why can't you just accept a simple fact? We just don't believe what you believe. That's it, nothing more. Somehow you have to wrap your whole life up in your beliefs about imaginary beings. Maybe that's how you can maintain it. If you invest enough of your life into it it will somehow be true.

Why should I think again. I am very clear about my life. I suggest you think about yourself and your beliefs.

Life is uncertain, that's what makes it valuable. It could be here today and gone tomorrow. I don't have to believe that, its the way it is. Its reality. Its just there. Every day, hour after hour, year after year. Just there, don't have to talk to it, don't have to pray to it, don't have to worship it, don't have to do anything. How about giving up the whole notion of living your life around an imaginary friend. Not even your own personal imaginary friend, one you borrowed from a bunch of bronze age goatherders. Very imaginitive.

No need to justify a belief I don't have. That's the point. No belief. No believing. No ghosts, no god(s), no devils, no demons, no imaginary friends. But you got the last part right. Apparently that's your big hang up, dying. The big scary abyss of death. Doesn't bother me other than I will not be here to see how it all ends. Rats!

But I am hoping to get digitized. Last forever.

RAFH

Just like your inability to work with quotes?

Do you have personal experience with reality letting you down? Maybe you could relate how reality failed to be real? What, you didn't get what you wanted for xmas?

ELECTROGOD

Beautiful! That one is going on the list of totally wacky things theists say.

Gawen

We live in it. If I feel the urge to sit on the toilet, I expect at least one of two things to happen. And believe me when I tell you that God is not the urge. But if nothing happens and I still feel the urge, something may be medically wrong or simple constipation. I'm not going to pray for God to push and grunt for me. I'm either going to get a stool softener or go to the doctor.
Existence is reality if existence has the properties you say it does.
My existence is not futile, transitory (whatever that means) or fragile. Explain why you think existence is what you say it is.

A theist must trust reality the same way we do. They have no choice. Even if the theist has a belief in an afterlife, their reality is really no different than a non-theists reality. An afterlife has no basis in reality.
An atheist can shoot dead a theist and a theist can shoot dead an atheist. What is so unreal, not trustworthy or uncertain about either case?

You really must explain yourself. Give us something to work with here.

Splarnst

(1) Posters are in no way obligated to answer your question.
(2) I challenged your claim which was the basis for your question. You can defend it or ignore me. Whate'er.

Cheerful Charlie

Reality is as it is. Whether you trust it or not, is. What the real question is, is do you trust your understanding of reality? And to what extent. This is really an old question going back to the Greek skeptics.

Atheists trust reality, because things like science work well. Atheists do not trust theists' ideas about reality because God is so easily disproven, and there are so many different revelations. Based on taking theists' ideas of reality to their logical conclusion,we see theists ideas of reality rarely work. Reality is testable. 2 + 2 = 4, if you say its 5, I know you have a rather wrong-headed idea about reality. If you say reality is described in an ancient book of contradictory fables, the contradictions and stupidities prove you don't understand reality and won't using that book of bronze age nonsense. If you tell me a god exists that has attributes that create impossible contradictions, your god does not exist and has nothing to do with reality. If you refuse to use logic and reason to understand the facts of reality and retreat to irrational willful ignorance, and that is nihilism.
You can never understand anything that way.

It is not hard to see books of supposed revelation are false and full of errors. If you say God is all good, all powerful, all knowing and creates all, its trivial to show that kind of god has multiple overlapping contradictions and inconsistancies disproving that god. Reality speaks truth to us if we use our rationality.

Cheerful Charlie

Cheerful Charlie

In actuality, Descarte's point is, "I think therefore I am". An evil demon cannot trick us to that point. In some sense, there is an "I", that "I" thinks, and is thus self aware, and has existence. Descartes was using this as a starting point to build philosophy from scratch from obvious and in arguable observed facts. Reality to this point is trustworthy. And Descartes could now build on that. However Descartes was out to prove god, not what reality was and went astray from that point on.

Cheerful Charlie