Chili

Thanks, I kind of knew that. Belgium and Holland are St. Nicholas and as you go into France it changes to Father Christmas.

I think that the Eastern Orthodox church celebrates Christmas at Epiphany because the arrival of the magi was the first sure sign that resurrection will follow.

Thomas II

Mais non! It's McDonalds phone number in Bordeaux, 21 Rue Sainte Catherine, at the Sainte Catherine Centre,which is around the corner from Rue St Remi...:grin:

Huon

No, the true reason is that they follow the Julian calendar, because the Gregorian calendar has been accepted by a Roman Pope, Gregory 13 Boncompagni in 1582. The Russian revolution happened on October 25 (Julian) or November 7 (Gregorian) 1917.

The Protestants followed the same anti-Roman policy until 1750 (more or less, I don't remember the exact year). At that time, they looked so ridiculous that the king of England changed the calendar.

Huon

Père Noël (Father Christmas) is very tightly connected to baby jeebus. Christmas is (now) the day of the children, not very religious. And Chili is right, it has not always been the case.

Huon

The "wise men from the East" who came to adore Jesus in Bethlehem of Juda.

Here is a summary of this story, taken from Catholic Encyclopedia :

Catholics insist that it is a narrative of fact, supporting their interpretation with the evidence of all manuscripts and versions, and patristic citations. Rationalists class the story of the Magi with the so-called "legends of the childhood of Jesus", later apocryphal additions to the Gospels. Admitting only internal evidence, they say, this evidence does not stand the test of criticism.

Luke, John and Mark are silent.

Matthew 2:1. When Jesus therefore was born in Bethlehem of Juda, in the days of king Herod, behold, there came wise men from the East to Jerusalem,
Matthew 2:2. Saying: Where is he that is born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the East, and are come to adore him.
Matthew 2:3. And king Herod hearing this, was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.

Luke 2:39. And after they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their city Nazareth.

• John and Mark are silent. This is because they begin their Gospels with the public life of Jesus. That John knew the story of the Magi may be gathered from the fact that Irenaeus (Adv. Haer., III, ix, 2) is witness to it ; for Irenaeus (second century) gives us the Johannine tradition.

• Luke is silent. Naturally, as the fact is told well enough by the other synoptics. Luke tells the Annunciation, details of the Nativity, the Circumcision, and the Presentation of Jesus in the Temple, facts of the childhood of Jesus which the silence of the other three Evangelists does not render legendary.

• Luke contradicts Matthew and returns the Child Jesus to Nazareth immediately after the Presentation (Luke 2:39). This return to Nazareth may have been either before the Magi came to Bethlehem or after the exile in Egypt. No contradiction is involved.

[/Catholic Encyclopedia]

Remark #1 : I do not imagine an Historical Jesus, going to and fro, telling : "When I was born, I have been visited by three Magi, coming from the East !"

Remark #2 :The translation "wise men" seems to me much weaker than the french usual translation which means "the three Kings Magi", "Magi" akin to magicians, people who know things which remain unknown from the ordinary people, and have magical powers. "Kings" is a popular amplification. These kings bring to Jesus gold, incense and myrr, another amplification.

Remark #3 : Luke, John and Mark are silent. Irenaeus (second century) gives us the Johannine tradition. Hi, hi, hi !

Remark #4 : Luke contradicts Matthew. No contradiction is involved. Hi, hi, hi !