Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Hrvoje Butkovic · 10-17-2007, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philian

Actually, both ideas make the same amount of sense: none. This may be off-topic a bit, but I used to dress in costume, go to sci-fi conventions, have conversations in klingon, etc. It was usually christians that would say something like, "You know it's not real, don't you?" It usually had me pretty dumb-founded when they would say this. I know my fantasies aren't real.....how about you?

It was my understanding that we were discussing this as a hypothetical scenario where the existence of god was assumed for the purpose of discussion.

philian · 10-17-2007, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hrvoje Butkovic

Quote:

Originally Posted by philian

Actually, both ideas make the same amount of sense: none. This may be off-topic a bit, but I used to dress in costume, go to sci-fi conventions, have conversations in klingon, etc. It was usually christians that would say something like, "You know it's not real, don't you?" It usually had me pretty dumb-founded when they would say this. I know my fantasies aren't real.....how about you?

It was my understanding that we were discussing this as a hypothetical scenario where the existence of god was assumed for the purpose of discussion.

And I may be sticking my nose where it doesn't belong, I don't know. But for an atheist and theist to take a position based on the assumption that there is a god seems dishonest. And I'm guilty of it also

, but has there ever been a debate where a theist and atheist take positions based on the assumption that there is no god?

I understand why....to argue from the assumption that the theist is correct, then to show that the world the theist describes is not logical. At any rate....it just bothers me a little. Please continue

fanucon · 10-17-2007, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadman_932

I don't try to dissuade the type of theists that "Thinking" is describing unless they attempt to force their views on me or initially engage me directly/indirectly on some matter. I certainly don't go out to the streets looking to assault the sensibilities of others.

However, I have had theists COME TO MY DOOR and threaten me with hellfire and damnation unless I believe what they believe.

I tend to reserve my venom for those types that are actively trying to impose their views. Christians who are merely living a good life and not trying to proselytize/evangelize me...hey, no problem.

I respect his position on the matter.

But i also respect the jehovahs witnesses who come to my door as in there heart they beleive they are attempting to save your soul. Regardless to whether or not you beleive in a soul.

I dont push my religious thoughts onto people. Although i expect if your going to knock down someones religion you damn well better be willing to consider there position on there religion, otherwise your just being an asshole and maybe should just stay quiet.

arguing with a man whos eyes are closed to reason is like administering medicine to the dead.

and by reason i refer to the consideration of others reason

epepke · 10-17-2007, 11:41 AM

Personally, I would be quite happy if I could get believers simply to understand what atheism really is.

fanucon · 10-17-2007, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epepke

Personally, I would be quite happy if I could get believers simply to understand what atheism really is.

Lets say this individual understood exactly what you were saying but still had his doubts of "Scientific gaps"(which im sure you hear all the time)

Would you be willing to attempt to understand his point of view
or would you be too close minded to consider the possibility of his explanations, granted they had a new direction

arkirk · 10-20-2007, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fanucon

Quote:

Originally Posted by epepke

Personally, I would be quite happy if I could get believers simply to understand what atheism really is.

Lets say this individual understood exactly what you were saying but still had his doubts of "Scientific gaps"(which im sure you hear all the time)

Would you be willing to attempt to understand his point of view
or would you be too close minded to consider the possibility of his explanations, granted they had a new direction

Maybe you DO UNDERSTAND all too well. Faith can only be undone by examination done by the believer. It is kind of like trying to teach mathematics to somebody that just cannot seem to get it. It is like there is a big mental block against new knowledge. I have had discussions of they type you mention and it is more a matter of seeing THE SAME OLD DIRECTION, THE SAME OLD JUSTIFICATION...THE SAME OLD TIME RELIGION.

This idea that there can be some kind of new take to old time religion is not so logical. It is thousands of years old, and nearly unchanged. When an opening comes in a person's life and they elect to be a bit more critical of what they believe, we still have issues. But as far as going on the mind-trip of the believer...not me, thank you!

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10-17-2007, 11:41 AM	#54
epepke Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Anywhere but Colorado, including non-profits Posts: 8,787	Personally, I would be quite happy if I could get believers simply to understand what atheism really is.

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