Freethought & Rationalism Archive

MrDarwin · 10-12-2004, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premjan

it seems that you did not read the article very thoroughly. not sure that the article is making a pro-creation argument (despite the forum). rather, it seems to be saying that the vertebrate retina is not that bad at its job, given the fact that it needs to retain the ability to regenerate itself over the lifetime of a potentially long-lived organism, unlike cephalopods which don't live that long.

Now if only the "designer" had built in some mechanism to protect against UV damage to the lens, which results in cataracts in us long-lived species.

MissJaymeKat · 10-12-2004, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrDarwin

Now if only the "designer" had built in some mechanism to protect against UV damage to the lens, which results in cataracts in us long-lived species.

~~Not to mention something to keep me from feeling the pain caused by staring deeply into my computer screen for too many hours...

mountain_hare · 10-13-2004, 04:39 AM

Quote:

my retina has never detached. how frequent is this phenomenon?

A 'elderly' teacher of mine (around 55-60) had a retina detached, and needed surgery. I was horrified. The thought of having surgery on my eyes is disturbing.

Sven · 10-13-2004, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premjan

I guess the main "proof" of evolution in many peoples' minds is the fact that there are "mistakes" in the evolutionary process.

Not only mistakes - inherited mistakes. Ever looked at the Vitamin C pseudogene?
And the real "proof" is not that these mistakes are there, but that they can actually be explained by evolutionary processes.

Quote:

I actually think evolution is probably more effective than we imagine. I was struck mainly by the effectiveness of the clonal antibody system in generating antigens for a foreign virus. This essentially requires sampling the entire space of possible antigens doesn't it? In this scenario, it would seem that there is a task for which evolution is nearly as efficient as design could be.

You might by interested in Evolving Immunity at talkorigins.

Aria · 10-13-2004, 11:25 AM

Quote:

I guess the main "proof" of evolution in many peoples' minds is the fact that there are "mistakes" in the evolutionary process.

I am seriously unable to understand you. I mean, you say all these words, and we respond to your words correcting all your mistakes, but you continue to say the words unchanged.

There is no main evidence, or line of evidence, for evolution. Each and every piece is important in it's own right. The fact of numerous shared flaws are just one kind of evidence, and the plain fact of the matter is most common laymen aren't really AWARE of the numerous flaws in the first place.

premjan · 10-13-2004, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aria

I am seriously unable to understand you. I mean, you say all these words, and we respond to your words correcting all your mistakes, but you continue to say the words unchanged.

There is no main evidence, or line of evidence, for evolution. Each and every piece is important in it's own right. The fact of numerous shared flaws are just one kind of evidence, and the plain fact of the matter is most common laymen aren't really AWARE of the numerous flaws in the first place.

I think "mistakes" are a very important evidence or signature of evolution (the alternative hypothesis being intelligent design). The mechanism of evolution is not as continuous or as well-sampled as the mechanism of intelligent (human or computer) information processing. Probably we could say that evolution involves sharing or transport of electrons across large molecules whereas intelligence is the relatively freer flow of electrons across molecular boundaries. We would expect the latter to be better at sharing or equalizing information than the former (in an informal sense).

I think evolution occasionally approaches intelligent design in efficacy, though generally it lags it.

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