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Old 05-20-2007, 04:35 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Ben C Smith View Post
No, probably not.

(Would you consider yourself a Jesus minimalist, perhaps?)
My Latinitas in me says no. But essentially, yes, I'm rather minimalistic.

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Which objection is that? (Spin has so many! )
Paul thought he missed the messiah.

The main problem with Spin's theory is that it's so out of touch with reality. Over and over again deluded people exault a person and elevate them to a higher status. What is more rare, and largely dependent on illiteracy and hundreds of years of tradition, is the fabrication of a deity, like spin suggests (whether that be intention, as mountainman maintains, which is even rare, or merely just a line tradition of a man entering the main body of tradition).
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Old 05-20-2007, 04:35 PM   #22
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Ah, yes. There is one more curious matter.

How is it that none of these points is in fact true? :notworthy:
How would you know?
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Old 05-21-2007, 04:22 PM   #23
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Solo, I agree with your idea that Paul was bi-polar, but does that not strengthen the mythical case? The three and a half years is a healing phase.
It would be possible to use the "bipolar self-help therapy" theory of Jesus to claim that the groups invented him and personalized him as guide through their trials and tribulations. Also, he would serve as a shield to the charge they are insane, e.g. Mt 10:25, It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more [shall they call] them of his household? I have shown on many examples why I don't believe that is the case. Take a peek, e.g. at the Lazarus post I put up yesterday.

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A real living historical Jesus is not required under Occam's razor because the spiritual gnostic one is just as efficacious at saving Paul's - and every one else's - soul.

So Paul is the inventor of xianity. The gospels are later add ons. Mark is a fascinating politicisation of Paul's madness. Everything else is built on Mark.
I just gave an account of my understanding of Paul. It assumes Jesus was a human, and one likely living in Paul's lifetime. A sudden mass outbreak of manic worship of someone who had lived long time ago would require some - a minimum - explanation. There isn't any that I can think of.
As for Paul inventing Xty, yes I believe he was the one who created the crucified "Christ" figure based on his tragic view of life. This view of Jesus as the suffering Messiah was later (after James' death and post 70 Dispersion ) impressed on the some of the Jewish worshippers who adopted Peter (then dead also) as their symbolic heir to Jesus. They and the Paulines went at it for a few decades and then either settled into Harmony or split off with the heretics.

I think Mark was a Pauline pupil but laboured for the adoptionist position which was at loggerheads with Paul. I believe that there is a good probability that at least some of the gospel materials (even Mark's) operates on genuine traditions about HJ, which is not to say that I credit them as a historical account of Jesus. Their function was to proclaim a mystery around him.

Jiri
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