Originally Posted by Psalm 13:5

Egypt would never again rule over nations
Bible passage: Ezekiel 29:15
Prophet: Ezekiel
Written: between 593-571 BC
Fulfilled: 1967, etc.

In Ezekiel 29:15, the prophet says that Egypt would recover from a desolation (perhaps Babylon's attack about 2600 years ago), but that it would never again rule over other nations. Up until the time of Ezekiel, Egypt had been a world power for centuries, dominating many nations, including Israel. But for most of the past 2500 years, Egypt has been controlled by foreign powers, including the Romans, Ottomans and Europeans. Today, Egypt is an independent nation again. In 1948, 1967 and 1973, Egypt tried to dominate Israel but was unsuccessful each time, despite the fact that Egypt is 10 times larger than Israel. Egypt today, in many respects, is an impressive nation. But since the time of Ezekiel, it no longer rules over other nations.

Originally Posted by Plastic Jesus

How are the prophecies (the ones that appear to have come true) in the Bible explained by those who do not believe Christianity is true?

Originally Posted by Plastic Jesus

Are there prophecies in the Bible that did not come true?

Originally Posted by Asha'man

There are quite a few that are blatantly false. I recall one that says all memory of a city will be wiped from the earth, but the city exists today, as does the written record of the earlier city.

Originally Posted by Vorkosigan

Thanks, Psalm, for at least making the effort.



Psalm, perhaps you and I are going to have a disagreement about the word "specific." But before we do that, we should perhaps point out that these passages were not written in 1400 BC but much later, sometime in the period of about 900-700 BCE, by which time the Hebrews had already created a couple of small kingdoms. Thus, these are not "prophecies" but justificatory claims by writers creating with one eye on the current political scene. A good introduction, though complexified, of course, by later scholarship, is Friedman's Who Wrote the Bible?.

2 "I will make you into a great nation
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you."

The problem of interpretation here is why I demanded a specific prophecy. This one is unspecific, in fact, it is completely vague. What does it mean to be "blessed?" Israel is not now and has never been "a great nation." In fact, given the violence and potential for world war that has accompanied Israel's rise in the Middle East, one could well argue that it has been a curse. This one is vague, and cannot qualify as a prophecy inasmuch as it was written well after the events it depicts occurs.




See comments on first one.




Psalm, this is not a prophecy. Here is the entire passage.

1 " 'Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God.
2 " 'Observe my Sabbaths and have reverence for my sanctuary. I am the LORD .
3 " 'If you follow my decrees and are careful to obey my commands, 4 I will send you rain in its season, and the ground will yield its crops and the trees of the field their fruit. 5 Your threshing will continue until grape harvest and the grape harvest will continue until planting, and you will eat all the food you want and live in safety in your land.
6 " 'I will grant peace in the land, and you will lie down and no one will make you afraid. I will remove savage beasts from the land, and the sword will not pass through your country. 7 You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you. 8 Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall by the sword before you.
9 " 'I will look on you with favor and make you fruitful and increase your numbers, and I will keep my covenant with you. 10 You will still be eating last year's harvest when you will have to move it out to make room for the new. 11 I will put my dwelling place [1] among you, and I will not abhor you. 12 I will walk among you and be your God, and you will be my people. 13 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt so that you would no longer be slaves to the Egyptians; I broke the bars of your yoke and enabled you to walk with heads held high.

In this passage the Hebrew Sky God YHWH is telling his people the terms of his agreement with them. It is paired with the next one, explaining what will happen if they break the agreement. There's no prophecy going on here.

In any case, as is well known to scholars, these passages were not written by Moses in 1,400 BCE, but much later.



Psalm, see notes on the previous one. Leviticus was written sometime in the first millenium when all these things had already come to pass.




Daniel was written in the second century BCE, not the sixth. Consult any good reference book, such as John J. Collins' one in the Anchor Bible Commentaries series. Daniel is referring to events in his own time, the second century. This is well known to scholars. Thus, this is not a fulfilled prophecy either.



The Book of Micah dates from after this period, some parts apparently date from after the return from Exile. End of that discussion. The very passage in question is most probably a later addition. As a citation on Kirby's excellent website notes:
"In 3.9-12 the priests and prophets are the object of Micah's invective, and for the first time the threat of the destruction of the Jerusalem temple is made. As we have seen, this last passage is doubtful: Jer. 26.18 dates it in the time of Hezekiah. Anyone who accepts its authenticity will note that the passage must have made a great impression if it could be quoted a century later in a court as a reason for acquittal in such an important case." (Introduction to the Old Testament, p. 271)."

And again:

"Jay G. Williams writes: "There has been considerable debate among scholars about how much of the book is actually attributable to Micah himself. As usual, the more radical scholars perform amputative surgery and remove most of the passages of hope (that is, most of 4-7) as later additions. A few conservatives attirbute every word to the original Micah. The truth, however, seems to lie somewhere between the two extremes. Certainly there are several passages (for instance, 4:10 which speaks of exile in Babylon) which were probably added later. On the other hand, it hardly seems necessary to deny to Micah most of what is found in the latter half of the book. One can only do so by asssuming before hand that an eighth century prophet must have said this and not that. The truth is that we know so little about the prophetic movement as a whole that no such hypotheses can be very fully substantiated." (Understanding the Old Testament, p. 248)."

It would be difficult to show that this prophecy dates from before the destruction you speak of.

Note that in all of the examples you have given so far, there is no specific prophecy, just a vague sense of the future. For example, just today I yelled at some kids at my son's school to stop standing on the teeter-totter because someone would get hurt. Sure enough, as soon as I turned my back, someone fell off and scraped his knee. Do you consider that I have magical prophetic powers? Or rather, is it that any intelligent person can foresee that if the political class is corrupt and society unbalanced, eventually the nation will be ravaged?



That statement will have to be demonstrated. How do you know Micah wrote at that time?



Matthew was written after the Temple's destruction, sometime between 80 and 120 CE. Thus, nothing here.



Luke wrote after Matthew, probably sometime between 80 and 150. He copied Mark, where this prophecy first appears. Mark apparently wrote sometime after 70 as well.



See notes on Deut. below....



Psalm, what makes you think an American humorist is an authority on the situation in Palestine in the 19th century, and further, what makes you think that the 19th century represents Palestine between 135 and 1948?



Deuteronomy was not writte in 1,400 BC but in parts spread over several periods, and reworked during the post-exilic period. Consult Kirby's website and review the links:

http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/deuteronomy.html

This passage reflects the events of later years. BTW, I notice that you left out that prophetic gem :

"68 The LORD will send you back in ships to Egypt on a journey I said you should never make again. There you will offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you."

Not to mention that deut simply lays out the terms of the covenant with the tribal god, and does not make prophecies.



See notes above. Moses did not write this book, several writers did, and it achieved its final form in the post-exilic period.



This one is vague. Which people on earth has not been persecuted, but perserved? Give me something specific, please.



Psalm, these chapters in Isaiah are post-exilic, and refer to the return from Babylon. Again see the references and links on Kirby's website:

http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/isaiah.html



See the major references on Jeremiah, another book that reached its final form in the post-exilic period. If memory serves the basic format of this work remained fluid until at least the period of the Dead Sea Scrolls.



See previous remarks.



Psalm, your history is utterly wrong, which is one reason you think these are fulfilled prophecies. See any basic reference on the birth of Israel, such as Sachar's A History of Israel. The fighting began weeks before the declaration on May 14. For example, the Arab Legion from Jordan had
captured the Ezion bloc kibbutz settlements a few days before and the Arabs were already shelling Jerusalem. Meanwhile the Jews had started their own offensive, capturing Safed about 5 days prior to the declaration.



See previous remarks. Never mind that this prophecy is not specific.



Psalm, this is another book that was heavily redacted in the post-exilic period (se Kirby's site). Also non-specific.



See previous remarks. All these books were redacted in the post-exilic period, some probably written at that time, though that is hotly contested.



From Kirby's site:
"James King West writes: "Not all of chapters 1-39 come from the original Isaiah. Three sections in particular are later additions. (1) Chapters 24-27, 'the Isaiah Apocalypse,' represents a fully developed apocalyptic style which did not appear until the exile and later. It should be noted, however, that Isaiah's own oracles are marked by certain features which the later apocalyptic school found compatible with its point of view, such as the dualistic contrast between light and darkness (cf. 9:1-7) and the prophet's quiet trust that God is sure to act on behalf of his people (cf. 7:30). (2) Chapters 33-35 bear an exilic coloration; 34 and 35 are in the style of Deutero-Isaiah. (3) Chapters 36-39 are historical narratives nearly identical with II Kings 18:13-20:19, having been taken from the same source utilized by the Deuteronomist. Obviously they were attached to the Isaiah collection due to their accounts of the prophet's involvement in the crisis of the Hezekiah period." (Introduction to the Old Testament, pp. 269-270)"

This is not a prior prophecy, but a later creation.

In sum, you have provided nothing that is specific, and the books you cite were all redacted -- indeed, many were written -- in later periods. There are no real prophecies here.


Vorkosigan

Originally Posted by post tenebras lux

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Answer incorrect. (for starters): During parts of the 19th and 20th centuries Eygpt ruled over The Sudan.

Luxie

Originally Posted by Psalm 13:5

lol! Well, it's so easy to just go through every prophecy and deny when it was written, I'm really impressed there Vorkosigan. The Bible has been around for 2000 years, it's the most studied book ever, do you really think that you can just come along and dismiss it all with a wave of the hand and claim that all the dates are just wrong? Wow, to think that someone I met online, a poster on an infidel website knows something that millions of other people who have spent years studying the Bible don't know... and how easy it is, just claim all the dates are wrong! LOL! I didn't read everything you posted, it's too late tonight to answer all your comments. It does amuse me though, how you think it's so easy to just rewrite history, or change the dates around simply because you said so, or because some liberal anti-Christian 'scholar' says so.

Originally Posted by Psalm 13:5

The scripture is:

Ezekiel 29:15 It will be the lowliest of kingdoms and will never again exalt itself above the other nations. I will make it so weak that it will never again rule over the nations.

It says nations plural. It will no longer be a superpower, or as powerful as it once was. I think anyone can see that is true. I've been to Cairo, and my memory of it goes along with what the scripture says.