aa5874

How could you be so wrong?? It is as if you have NEVER ever read the Gospels.

It is most amazing that you will come on BC&H and say that the Gospel authors portrayed Jesus as as a human being when the EXTANT Codices and the writings of apologetic sources are readily available.

It is horribly erroneous that the Gospels portrayed Jesus as human when they portrayed him as the Son of a Holy Ghost, God the Creator or that he Acted Non-human when he Walked on Sea water.

Matthew 1:20 KJV All the Gospel authors that wrote of a birth narrative Specifically mentioned that Jesus was the Son of a holy Ghost.

And this is Extremely significant in gLuke.

We have the birth narratives of the characters John the Baptist and Jesus in gLuke 1.

John the Baptist was PORTRAYED as the Human Son of a Priest named Zechariah in gLuke 1.

The angel Gabriel appeared to a man called Zechariah for the birth of John the Baptist and a Virgin Mary for the birth of Jesus.

Examine the words of the angel in gLuke's birth narrative of John the Baptist.

Luke 1 Now examine the conception of Jesus in gLuke. Jesus is PORTRAYED as the holy thing of a Ghost and the Son of God.

Luke 1 It was John the Baptist that was portrayed as human but Jesus was PORTRAYED as NON-human in gLuke.

And the author of gJohn went even further, he declared Jesus was God the Creator. See John 1.

But, the author of gMark, he too wrote about John the Baptist and Jesus.

In gMark, John the Baptist Baptised im WATER but Jesus WALKED on it. [See Mark 6 and John 6]

You don't make much sense.

Doug, it is UTTERLY erroneous that Jesus was portrayed as human in the Gospels, it was John the Baptist. Jesus was the Son of a Ghost, God the Creator that Walked on Sea Water.

It was deemed Heretical by the Church to portray Jesus as Human with a human father and the Gospels are found in the Canon of the Church.

Duvduv

So aa5874 you are saying that although the authors went to the trouble of creating a nativity story they still believed Jesus did not have a human physical body despite being born conventionally, his mother having been fertilized unconventionally.

aa5874

Toto, why don't you state your OWN position?

You constantly claim you don't uderstand what I write yet you are telling people my position is that of "standard Christianity".

Toto, please, stop mis-representing me.

My position of Jesus is NOT that of "standard Christianity".

Standard Christianity does NOT claim Jesus was a Myth Fable like that of the Greeks and Romans.

Now, Please tell us your position.

Tom Sawyer

But they did portray him as a human being. He hung out with people, chatted with them, etc. He was basically a guy with some extra powers, no different than how Hercules was portrayed as a human being despite his being able to hold up the sky like Atlas or how Superman is portrayed as a human being despite having all his powers. They're all basically people, but just people with extra abilities and it's the human parts of them which are the essential parts of the story. They're alien people, half-god people, etc, but it's their humanity that makes them the heroes of the stories and the main focus of their characters.

The entire point of the Gospels was that Jesus was human. All his suffering, crucifixion, death, etc are completely meaningless if you view him as a god instead of as a man.

sotto voce

On the contrary. His suffering, crucifixion, death, etc. are completely meaningless if viewed as only a man, because the Romans crucified thousands of people like Jesus, two of them with him. The death of Jesus that counts, if anything about him counts, is not his physical death at all, but the spiritual death he experienced as punishment for the evil deeds and thoughts of everyone else. This is, as is believed, why he cried out that he had been forsaken. This may be why he died physically before death was expected.

Jesus had to be tested 'in every way as we are' and yet never commit a sin. And the temptation to sin had to be as real as it is for us. So he had to be as human as we are, with no advantages. If Jesus was any less than perfect, then nobody's conscience can be perfected, can be salved, and there can be no salvation for anyone. In the biblical context, of course. As, in that context, there is only one who is perfect, the deity, Jesus must be the deity. Jesus is either as significant as the nameless thieves between whom he was crucified, or he is the God and saviour of all. Nothing between.

Sheshbazzar

And thus the question as to the nature of his body is irrelevant unless one is a committed Christian and is a 'member in particular' (1Cr 12:27) of his body, the Church.




Or is that.... one that should be 'committed' ? :Cheeky:

aa5874

The ANGEL Gabriel hung out with Zechariah and Mary and CHATTED with them. See Luke 1.

Satan hung out with Jesus and CHATTED with him on the Jewish Temple. See Matthew 4.,

The Angel Gabriel and Satan were portrayed as Human beings in the Gospels!!!!????


Was the humanity of the Angel Gabriel and the humanity of Satan essential to the Jesus story? They CHATTED a lot.
Well, you NEED to tell that to Peter, Judas, and the other disciples in gMark. The disciples Betrayed, Abandoned and Denied Jesus because they thought he was a man, even when he showed them he was NON-HUMAN, that he could Walk on water and Transfigure, that he could feed thousands of people with a few piece of bread, that he could INSTANTLY heal incurable diseases, raise the dead and even change the WEATHER.

All the suffering, crucifixion and death of Jesus was meaningless to the disciples in gMark UNTIL they went to the Empty tomb.

It was the EMPTY TOMB that change everything.

If Jesus was portrayed as a man there would have been NO Empty Tomb.

Mark 16:6 KJV gMark's Jesus was NOT a man after all.

You don't understand the Jesus story. You don't understand why the author of gMark claimed Jesus walked on water, transfigured and resurrected.

You don't understand that it was the resurrected Non-human Jesus that Commissioned the disciples to preach the Gospel to every creature of all nations.

Without the resurrected non-human Jesus, Christianity would be meaningless.

1 Corinthians 15:14 KJV

Duvduv

BUT the angels or Satan are not born to human mothers as Jesus is in the nativity and apologetica!!!!

Sheshbazzar

I do have to question this one though.
If I had the ability to transform water into wine, I expect that I'd be very popular and would get invited to a lot more weddings and parties.
.....And if I could heal the blind, and the sick, and even bring dead persons back out of their graves and to life, I expect that people would be also be falling at my feet in admiration and praise.
So I can't help but thinking that the possession of such superpowers would give me a distinct and considerable advantage over anything that my common and only human fellow man possessed.

aa5874

There is NO birth narrative for Jesus in gMark but he Walked on water and tranfigured.

The birth narratives of Jesus in gMatthew and gLuke were invented so Jesus of gMark may NOT have been believed to born at all but came down from heaven to Capernaum.