itsamysteryhuh

I've already posted the reasoning before.

Pretty deep stuff, isn't it? And to think it was written by those referred to here as "sheep herders."

spin

Oh, the ignorance. It's Greek, matey. Your rudimentary knowledge of English grammar is useless to you when you should be trying to understand the Greek. The word "tormented" in the English translation is a past participle and not an adjective. You were told that it was a passive, so obviously tormented is only part of the verb: the passive in English is some form of the verb "to be" plus past participle. In Greek this combination is simply one verb.

It is total ignorance to think that you can work with a translation and be meaningful about the significance of the original text which the translation can only partially convey. When you deal with specific language you must deal with the original text, otherwise you talk hooey.

Simpleton more like. Do Transformational Grammar 101 to see the underlying relationship between the active and passive in English and glean along the way that other languages work differently from English, meaning you can't project your vague understanding of grammar onto them.

The Greek verb is odunwmai. Deal with it. Then try to get back to the topic which you started and are now avoiding for obvious reasons.


spin

makerowner

Where did you post it this reasoning? Is it based on the text or on your preconceptions?

No, not especially deep. It's just a revenge fantasy.

Julian

Since spin has already taken you to task for this, I will keep it short. You are embarrassing yourself. You are attempting to discuss Greek grammar without knowing any Greek grammar, or grammar of any kind. οδυνωμαι is a verb, an indicative first person PASSIVE in present tense = I am tormented. Here is my translation, which follows the Greek grammar exactly: οτι οδυνωμαι εν τη φλογι ταυτη = "because I am tormented in this flame."

A word of advice: Do not discuss Greek grammar, language, and translation without actually knowing Greek. Oh yeah, by the way, your grasp of English grammar seems equally bad.

Julian

itsamysteryhuh

Apparently you are not aware of adjective uses of the word "tormented (even though I'm quite sure I posted these before)?"

So why are you trying to turn an obvious adjective into a verb (in Greek or English)?

A better word of advice: use the correct form of the word when trying to discuss its meaning. Julian, since your translation is correct, you should note that "tormented" in the phrase "because I am tormented" is clearly an adjective. Yet another verb use compared to yet another adjective use would be written similar to these below:

1. His knowledge of being in the grave tormented him. His knowledge being that which was doing the tormenting, so "tormented" is a verb in this sentence).

2. Because he was in the grave at the judgement, he was both humiliated and tormented. In this sentence, the words "humiliated" and "tormented" are adjectives descriptive of the person's feelings.

See? Once again, it's quite simple, so your personal insults are apparently misguided. Try the mirror instead. :wave:

makerowner

Do you seriously not get it? There isn't a 1-to-1 correspondence between Greek and English words in any good translation. The word οδυνωμαι is a passive verb in the 1st person singular, which can be translated as 'I am tormented'. There is no adjective here.

itsamysteryhuh

An example of why I'm referring to it as an adjective (participle adjective).

http://gocsm.net/sevas/esl/reviewlesson/passive3b.html

spin

This link is for teaching people how to learn English, ie it's a simplified version of English grammar. :banghead:

Who gives a hoot about English grammar when you are supposed to be arguing about Greek to understand the significance of the verse in question? It is so painful to see you spread the egg further around your face with every post. Be ashamed of your ignorance. Understand the issue. And get on with the topic. Arguing about whether odunwmai is adjectival only seems to show you have nothing to say and that you have exhausted your small contribution complaining about how terms were being misused. Read this:

it's not so easy to argue about such terms if you are truly educated about their meanings.

Well, if education means something to you, do something about it and stop your rot.


spin

makerowner

Please read post #76 again. The part of speech of the English translation is irrelevant, since the text is in Greek.

itsamysteryhuh

So the English translation, so written out again by Julian (οτι οδυνωμαι εν τη φλογι ταυτη = "because I am tormented in this flame") is irrelevant? If it's irrelevant, why bother with it at all (meaning the English translation and the original Greek are one in the same, just written with different alphabets)? Yeah, I'm afraid it is relevant.

Hey, spin, please stop spouting your pathetic orders and admit you're wrong. You are typing like a 12-year-old trying to get revenge on some kid he doesn't like at a school playground. But, in reality (re: reality bites), I think you're just angry because you know it is relevant and you should "give a hoot" (although "giving a hoot" will interfere with your way of life, er, thinking). You'll be ok, though, won't you? :huh: