Onias

What on earth are you talking about?? David often praised the righteousness of God.

sotto voce

Do you really think that Protestants are moronic?

Onias

If I did, I would not use your insulting words. But that is not relevant to what I just said about David praising the righteousness of God.

Onias

In another thread (Esau and Jacob), 'semiopen' alleged this whole discussion was about whether the correct term in Gen 15:6 was rendered as 'righteousness' or 'benevolence'.

I responded thus:

I welcome any futher discussion on this issue.

semiopen

The references you give from the dubious Christian guy mix Tzadik and Tzedaka

These are two different words, they shouldn't be mixed up like that. In fact, I think that these are all Tzadik. Some of the references are with the word צִדְקָתֶךָ (your righteousness) where you can't tell as in Ps 71:15

Not only is the guy apparently a liar but he puts in references, to make himself look more learned than he really is.

Compare the references I gave from Moshe Anbar

Neh 2:20

וָאָשִׁיב אוֹתָם דָּבָר, וָאוֹמַר לָהֶם אֱלֹהֵי הַשָּׁמַיִם הוּא יַצְלִיחַ לָנוּ, וַאֲנַחְנוּ עֲבָדָיו, נָקוּם וּבָנִינוּ; וְלָכֶם, אֵין-חֵלֶק וּצְדָקָה וְזִכָּרוֹן--בִּירוּשָׁלִָם

of course, I've mentioned this stuff several times before but it seems to make no impression on you. I've learned something in this thread by doing some research and reading the posts of Shesh and others, what have you learned?

There is a possibility that Gen 15:6 can be translated the way you (and your buddy Ramban) suggest. What is the point? This thing was composed in the sixth century or later, it's not a Yoshke prophecy.

Onias

Semiopen,

Once again the controversy in the OP is not about whether or not the appropriate word in Gen 15:6 was 'Tzadik' or 'Tzedika'.

The central issue in the OP was who was imputing righteousness or (if you wish, benevolence) to Whom. I actually agree 'benevolence' is the better term, i.e, Abram was imputing benevolence to God rather than the reverse.

Why do you continue to evade this issue?

Please return to the issue in the OP.
Onias

Sheshbazzar

After a while it becomes pointless to argue it any further on this Forum.

You Onias, state that you are a 'Jew' (post # 157 above)

That being, you ought to be taking your translation arguments up with The Jewish Publishing Society and persuading your fellow Jews to change their rendering of Genesis 15:6 to your satisfaction. (as I pointed out the common KJV and Catholic Bibles do not have this problem)

Really I have no idea how many JPS Bibles have been printed and distributed since 1917, but as it is the English version most accepted by English speaking Jews, and its rendering of Gen 15:6 has been long accepted by America's English speaking Jews, and in that it has been, that seems to verify that it is the acceptable reading and prevailing 'Jewish position' on this matter. If you want to revise Jewish Bible's you need to take it up with the Jewish Rabbi's, scholars, and publishers.

With a whole lot of work you might possibly be able to bulldoze your fellow Jews into tossing out, or whiting out and re-writing this verse in their JPS Bibles. But doing so will not alter the opinion of those many Jews and Gentiles that disagree with your interpretation.
There are two differing views on this text and each of these views have had their supporters for ages.
No matter how long you may argue your view on this, you cannot force feed your opinion to those who aren't swallowing it.
A fact of life that you will just have to learn to live with.

Onias

Accusing me of "bulldozing" or "force Feeding" my views on others is inflammatory and offensive. I should not be bullied into accepting your view or anyone else's. We need to discuss the merits of an issue without resorting to demogogic or abusive language.

As to my being a Jew, that does not impede my right to think freely and to question authority. Many Jewish sages and rabbis have disagreed with one another. And I have the rigtht within the rules of this forum to speak freely as long as I do not engange in ad hominem attacks or attempt to bully others. So please stop trying to bully me.

semiopen

I did learn something else Onias, you're Jewish.

How did you pick such a Farblondzhet reference?

My guess is that there is something like a 75% chance that the traditional interpretation is correct and 25% for your and Ramban's.

As long as there is no Yoshke zinger at the end, is it that important?

Onias

Farblondzhet - Lost, bewildered, confused

What are you trying to say, semiopen?

If you have something to say, respond to the issue of the OP.

And didn't you realize 'Onias' is a Jewish name?