Celsus

I'm judging based on your attitude in this and the other thread. You want to have your cake and eat it don't you? Isn't your dismissal of the Bible, perhaps, er, prejudicial, and people pointing that out to you is considered, "prejudicial"?
Scholarly consensus? Academic standards? Informed opinion? Certainly not "fairly according to standards set by bigots" (no I'm not refering to you).
Very good. You're getting there (but there are a multitude of other reasons you've failed to mention, such as learning more about ancient societies, tracing the evolution of literature, understanding the context of mythology, etc.). Do you see the historical worth of ancient documents yet?
No, I said you "want" to claim it's rubbish (and like you said, everyone makes judgements, right?). Right from the outset you challenged people to show one "worthwhile" thing you can get from the Bible. After spin explained it to you, your fallacy of accent comes through when you shift the emphasis from "one worthwhile thing [you] can get from the Bible" to "one worthwhile thing [you] can get out of the Bible". Since you have declared that none of the listed things interest you, then you get to win your little challenge. Very clever, but I'm posting in the hope that others read the thread and judge for themselves.

Joel

LP675

I was at first a little surprised to see your posts Spin. I was actually going to ask you a while back why you have such a fascination with the bible. Now I would like to know if you have a similar fascination with Islamic, Hindu or Buddhist scriptures. And if not why not?

LP
(Genuine interest, not looking for a biff)

spin

Nowadays I only have time for my specific field of interest, the period of the Dead Sea Scrolls and its background, and for slumming here. I have looked at both Quran and Vedic literature, but the sorts of necessary discussions (at least in English) weren't available at the time of reading. The RigVeda offers a mass of material that would yield fascinating philological study, though the historical side is unfortunately unavailable to help give some order out of the chaos. It's a matter of time, cultural bias (the texts are readily available, and every dogs and its fleas has an opinion) and interest (I've spent a lot of time in biblical studies and to get to a sufficient level of background knowledge in another literary base would require just as long, if not longer).


spin

pope fiction

It is important, yes, only because it has (unfortunately, in IMO) molded our society almost worldwide. It's a big part of history. However, this doesn't mean that what is says is right. You say the bible is important, and not crap, but you can also say the same thing about Mein Kempf. So what? We're criticizing the accuracy of the bible, not its impact on our society.

PF

spin

Not in this thread, we aren't. We are dealing with the poorly expressed proposition that the bible is crap and as yet no-one seems able to speak in favour of the proposition.

Who other than you in this thread is talking about whether it is "right" or not? Is the Enuma Elish "right"? Or the Upanishads? Is what Beowulf says "right"? The Theognis?

You are shooting at the wrong thing. The cultural artefact is not your problem, but the way certain people use it.

Mein Kampf is a cultural artefact, illustration of the thought of someone who went through a cataclysm in a specific historical context and offers for those who are interested in that context vast insight, yet it has been used by a lunatic fringe for its own purposes. How can anyone really understand or appreciate Mein Kampf without understanding the turmoil of Europe which had been through the carnage of WW1, the economic hardships imposed on Germany as a result of that war. Isn't Mein Kampf an important book because it is a window into a disturbed brain? It isn't wonderful literature as much of the bible is, but it offers enough for the disinvolved reader to find interest.

Fascism implies the subjugation of a society under the fasces. Xianity and other religions imply the passivisation of a society. These are not the issues in this thread.

Whether the bible is true or not is irrelevant. Most people here don't think its contents is reflective of events in the real world as it is. If you really want to argue that the bible is crap, explain your argumentation, use logic.


spin

Goliath

Hahahahaha!!!! Tell that to the xians.


Sincerely,

Goliath

Goliath

And you have every right to do so. You aren't listening, however. I asked why I should care what you think.

I'm a scholar (about a month away from a PhD), and I'm informed about the bible since I have read it.

I'll take you at your word, despite a nagging feeling that you are indeed referring to me.

That's because there are probably about as many reasons to enjoy literature as there are people reading literature. Did you really expect me to list them all?

So you did. My apologies.

No, I don't believe I've shifted the goalposts at all. If it seems that way, I apologize, but by "worthwhile", I of course meant "worthwhile to me".

And no one has yet to meet the challenge.

Sincerely,

Goliath

hammodius

Talk about a primary source: we have evidence that the book of Isaiah hasn't changed in over 2000 years! Want to know what people 2000 years ago considered to be scripture? Read the Old Testament. You don't have to accept or reject its historical accuracy to learn from it something about the people who wrote it and read it. I submit that we have a better idea of the cultural identity of the Hebrew nation than any other people that old. We know what they considered their national history to be, their heritage, their moral code, their cultural heroes, their poetry, and their account of the origin of the world.

The library is a great place to research history. AND any library worth its salt will carry copies of the Bible.

Matt

spin

I tell them lots of things as it is, as you might notice in other threads.

I can understand a disenchanted person pouring scorn on the trappings of xianity. You feel taken in, hoodwinked at a grand level, aggressed against, hence aggressive. This aggression, though understandable, clouds judgment. It won't help in dealings with xians, who will only see your aggressive state as example of your "fall". You won't communicate in such a state and merely venting will achieve very little other than temporary relief from the feeling of being taken in. If you have the desire to do more, you need to change strategy, become more in control, turn the aggression into mental agility.


spin

spin

Perhaps it might help with such an arbitrary benchmark that you explain to us your personal criteria for what is "worthwhile to" you. Once we understand them, we can decide whether we should bother dealing with your whims or not.


spin