kcdad

My god... the amount of misinformation here is stunning. Jesus is a Greek name.
Y'shua is a Jewish name.

Loomis

I assumed that you and the other folks reading this thread would know what I meant.

I still do. <edit>.

kcdad

WHAT did you mean? That Jesus was a Jewish name? It isn't. It isn't any more than Papadopoulis or Kazantzakis is. No one in Jesus' lifetime called him Jesus... I am willing to bet there were Jesuses in Greece however.

Loomis

:clapping:

bacht

Yes, if we're doing a normal historical analysis of 1st C people. I don't know what you're getting at. The gospels say that Jesus attracted huge crowds, surely there were some non-Christians included? Or if his movement was really considered a threat by either Jewish or Roman authorities why didn't some one of these groups mention him or his followers? What about the Pharisees and rabbis who compiled the Mishnah, did they have nothing to report about this prophet/exorcist/healer?

How about this: some apocalyptic Jews had visions of God's Christ which convinced them that the end was near. After two major Jewish revolts some gentile Judaizers picked up on this fringe sect and expanded it into a new religion.

The written reports we have represent the inner psychological world of messianic fever. It's possible the first followers of The Way were frightened nerds hiding from the collapse of their society around their ears. Or they could have been diaspora Jews and converts amalgamating their faith with Hellenistic philosophy like Platonism. Either way they made no impression on their contemporaries in the 1st C.

kcdad

I'll go even further and suggest that there were NO Christians in any of Jesus' crowds. I'm thinking there were Jews and Gentiles, only, and predominantly illiterate peasants.

show_no_mercy

If you want to get overly pedantic, "Jesus" is a Latinized Greek name. However, the name that Jesus derives from is Ιησου (Iesou), and Ιησου was the agreed upon transliteration by Greek speaking Jews for Joshua when they translated the Pentateuch c. 280 BCE. Prior to the existence of the LXX, the name "Ιησου" didn't exist.

"Jesus" has no meaning in Greek. It's just that you can't render "Joshua" or "Jehoshua" using Koine Greek letters.

Guess what, though? Genesis, Deuteronomy, Psalm, Moses, Exodus, synagoge, and a slew of other names/words we associate with "Jews" are just as Greek in origin as Jesus. If you want to say that the name Jesus isn't Jewish, then neither is the word "synagoge".

bacht

Well that's convenient. It's always the same problem: Jesus was significant enough to create a following in his lifetime, but not significant enough to be noticed by anyone else during or after (this being supposedly the one and only Son of God, in disguise I guess). Did I miss something?

aa5874

You contradict yourself.

Once a writing is deemed heretical and is non-canonical, the Jesus described therein may be some other Jesus.

The Jesus of the supposed heretic Marcion was NOT said to be from NAZARETH and was a Phantom.

You appear to have failed to realise that the name Jesus was very common in antiquity.

Jesus, ofspring of the Holy Ghost of God and the Virgin Mary, without a human father, is vastly different to the Jesus entity in the heretical writings of Valentinus, Cerinthus, Carpocrates, Marcion, the Ebionites, Menander or Simon Magus to name a few.

Not every Jesus is Jesus of Nazareth.

And even if HJ did exist and was from Nazareth he would have been considered a fake or an impostor and would not have made it to the Canon since he would have the wrong father.

The true Jesus of Nazareth can be identified by the following.

1. The offspring of the Holy Ghost of God and a Virgin without a human father.
2. He was Tempted by the Devil for forty days and nights in the wilderness.
3. He instantly Healed incurable diseases.
4. He walked on water with the 1st bishop of Rome in his arms.
5. He transfigured while the 1st bishop of Rome, James and John watched dead men come back to life.
6. He was raised from the dead, and ascended through the clouds.

Not every Jesus is Jesus of Nazareth.

kcdad

"may be"... or may not be

Who is to decide what is heretical, the Roman Christians or the Jerusalem followers of The Way?

The "establishment" that Jesus preached against?