IamJoseph

You have my permission to banish me from this forum if I fail to offer solid evidence. Pease be more specific - which part are you referring to as inaccurate and smearing?

credoconsolans

I'd like to read references that indicate Vespasian and Titus (his son) were such demoniacal madmen as well. I don't recall ever reading any such thing about them.

Tybalt

I'm an avid fan of Ancient Rome, and my history-naziness makes me say this to you:

Rome was founded in 753 BCE by Romulus, the first of the kings. Rome became a republic in 509 BCE, and then an Empire.

The Caesar's were not kings, they were emperors, despite the fact that they were a monarchy. The last king of Rome was Tarquinius

spamandham

It's possible that this is what resulted in Christianity, but it's hard to see how. If we wish to attribute something historically significant to the start of Christianity, I would look toward either the destruction of the temple or the Bar Kochba revolt.

IamJoseph

The early christians did not fight for Jerusalem - thus they lost it and its true owners got it back:

There were four major stages in the final break between Christianity and Judaism: (1) the flight of the Jewish Christians from Jerusalem to Pella across the Jordan in 70 and their refusal to continue the struggle against the Romans, (2) the institution by the patriarch Gamaliel II of a prayer in the Eighteen Benedictions against such heretics (c. 100), and (3 and 4) the failure of the Christians to join the messianic leaders Lukuas-Andreas and Bar Kokhba in the revolts against Trajan and Hadrian in 115–117 and 132–135, respectively.

Even after Paul proclaimed his opposition to observance of the Torah as a means of salvation, many Jewish Christians continued the practice. Among them were two main groups: the Ebionites—probably the people called minim, or “sectaries,” in the Talmud—who accepted Jesus as the messiah but denied his divinity; and the Nazarenes, who regarded Jesus as both messiah and God yet still regarded the Torah as binding upon Jews.

The number of Jews converted to any form of Christianity was extremely small, as can be seen from the frequent criticisms of Jews for their stubbornness by Christian writers. In the Diaspora, despite the strong influence of Hellenism, there were relatively few Jewish converts, though the Christian movement had some success in winning over Alexandrian Jews.

IamJoseph

Then you should know, like the depraved Caligula, Titus made assassination attempts on his own father to take Vespasian's woman Berenice, and later Titus did take her, displaying a total disrespect for age and parent before all the people. In the victory celebrations in Rome, he had 2,500 Jews killed by forcing them to battle with lions and tigers, made 97,000 slaves of exiled Jews, and boldly erected monumants displaying the Temple booty he looted.

His own father rejected the crown of victory out of shame - because Titus engaged Rome's greatest forces, including 200,000 paid Arabian mercenaries, 10,000 Britons and hordes of Syrians - to conquer a small nation who refused to bow to his emperor's images. There was no regard for age or sex in the 800,000 he murdered, and had a big problem securing supply of crosses for mass crucifixions. How typical of Europeans to hail what was a Holocaust in 70 CE where 1.2 Million Jews were slaughtered [equavalent to 20 Million today]. What else is new!

dragoon

Joe, IMHO, you are mixing fact and fiction to an unacceptable degree. You have established absolute zero credibility with me.

Anybody who appears to simply make up history to suit his/her agenda and then does not reference their version of history, is a complete waste of time for me to try to deal with.

If others wish to do so, that's their choice.

credoconsolans

I'm still waiting on your links/references.

All I recognize as being familiar is yes, Titus had a mistress - name of Berniece and it caused a scandal because though of royal blood, she wasn't Roman and because Titus doted on her. Loved her even. Not because he had sex with her in public as you seem to insinuate. Vespasian's favorite mistress was Caenis as I recall, not Berneice.

Yes, Vespasian and Titus put many Jews to death - the Romans normally did that when they conquered. Especially a rebellious people. Titus leveled Jerusalem, burned the city and Temple to the ground, killed a great many and took spoils and slaves. Quite normal for a Roman at the time, can't say the people there weren't warned.

Titus had a Triumph over that victory in the streets of Rome. Vespasian very likely used many Jewish slaves from that victory to build the Colosseum (Flavian Amphitheater).

So, I await your links and references. The ones I have state the above.

spin

He doesn't seem to know the distinction.

How long are you prepared to wait?

I've put him on ignore and I recommend you forget about waiting and do the same. Internet can sometimes give you an untinctured look into someone's head and the connections I've seen in this one require a lifetime of rewiring.


spin

(To ignore: copy the name of the member you want to ignore, go to this link and enter the name. Or use this link specifically for IAmJoseph: http://www.freeratio.org//profile.ph...ddlist&u=40492, where 40492 is IAmJoseph's member number. Put your mouse over the link to the member name on the left of a message to find the number.)

IamJoseph

Which part are you denying, before I post factual, historical references? :huh: