Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mountainman · 04-14-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

But what is quintessentially Western about Nestor? The rational perspective?

Dont forget the other major player Nestorius.
The rational perspective when adopted in examination of the heresies and controversies thrown at Nestorius by the political Cyril, nephew of that malicious mafia thug "bishop" Theophilus. Nestorius was framed for
his rational perspective that he held and reported in his writings
on all the many "christian controversies" which were going down in
the empire at the time he assumed the position of archbishop of
the city of Constantine. He plainly reported these controversies.

Cyril wanted them buried deeply.
Read the "Tome of Heracleides ".

Quote:

I see many who strongly insist
on these [theories of fiction]
as something [based] on
the truth and ancient opinion.

mountainman · 04-14-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

But these are characteristics of pre city folk.

Pre Chrysargyron which was first implemented in the major cites and provincial capitals. Diocletian had already established the dioceses - these were then centralised under Constantine. Winch winch tax tax and tax robber thief bandit brigand malevolent despot and supreme military commander. The Hellenic resistance (the Arian controversy) ultimately failed but not before they secreted the Nag Hammadi codices c.348 CE into the mother earth.

Clinical · 04-15-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

By the monk Bahira, in the convent at Bozrah, Mohammed was taught the tenets of the Nestorians; from them the young Arab learned the story of their persecutions. It was these interviews which engendered in him a hatred of the idolatrous practices of the Eastern Church, and indeed of all idolatry; that taught him, in his wonderful career, never to speak of Jesus as the Son of God, but always as "Jesus, the son of Mary."--Draper

Wrong. There is no evidence for this whatsoever.

No Robots · 04-15-2009, 03:44 PM

For arguments supporting this, see Mohammed By Tor Andrae:

Mohammed received from the Nestorians of Persia the impressions which decisively influenced his personal religious message.--p. 90.

Clinical · 04-15-2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

For arguments supporting this, see Mohammed By Tor Andrae:

Mohammed received from the Nestorians of Persia the impressions which decisively influenced his personal religious message.--p. 90.

What is his evidence?

No Robots · 04-15-2009, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clinical

What is his evidence?

Check it out for yourself.

Clinical · 04-15-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clinical

What is his evidence?

Check it out for yourself.

I will.

Clivedurdle · 04-15-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

7. Muhammad as a youth and the trade journeys
Muhammad (pbuh) began to grow up in a steady family home with Abu Talib, his uncle. Muhammad tended sheep as a youngster and later when he was about 12 years old, he accompanied Abu Talib on a trade journey to Syria. In a place called Bushra a very interesting incident took place, which caused Abu Talib to return Muhammad to Makkah.
On their trade journey they met a monk by the name of Bahira. Bahira lived a simple life in a monastery. He had very simple provisions and lived a harsh life, surviving on the bare essentials of life. His diet was very simple and the clothes he wore were also coarse and well worn. He was looking outside and saw a caravan approaching. His residence were on the main caravan route and he regularly saw caravans passing by. They would be carrying different goods destined to be sold in the great markets of Syria.
He noticed that this caravan was different; there was something special about it. He decided to invite them to a meal and find out more. Bahira sent a message to the caravan that his hospitality was extended to all the members of the caravan. The caravan traders accepted the invitation and arrived at the monk’s place.
When they arrived, Bahira searched their faces looking for something. He said that I offered my hospitality to everyone did you leave anyone behind? They said that we left a young boy Muhammad to look after the camels. Bahira insisted that they send someone to get Muhammad and bring him to the entertainment. When Bahira saw the face of Muhammad he was delighted.
After the food, Bahira approached Abu Talib saying that Muhammad would be a great prophet one day. He said that when he had seen the caravan in the distance there was a cloud hanging over them, which was shading them from the great heat of the desert. When the caravan had stopped under a tree the cloud had also stopped above them.
Bahira said that he had seen the stones and the trees prostrating to Muhammad as Muhammad had been walking by. They only do this for a prophet of Allah. He looked at the Muhammad's back and noticed the seal of the prophet, which was an oval shape protruding just below Muhammad's shoulder blades. He said that this was one of the signs of a great prophet to come that was taught to them in their books.
Bahira said "This is the master of all humans, Allah will send him with a message which would be a mercy to all Humans". Bahira advised that Muhammad should be taken back to Makkah at once, if the Jews found out about Muhammad they would try to kill him. Abu Talib took the advice of this wise old monk and sent Muhammad back with some of the guides.

http://www.musalla.org/Articles/Seerah/seerah7.htm

Doug Shaver · 04-16-2009, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clinical

What is his evidence?

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Check it out for yourself.

It has been my consistent experience that whenever I have asked an apologist for evidence and the apologist, instead of showing me any of it, has told me I could find it in some book that he was recommending, when I have read the book, I did not find the evidence that the apologist claimed was there.

No Robots · 04-16-2009, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

It has been my consistent experience that whenever I have asked an apologist for evidence and the apologist, instead of showing me any of it, has told me I could find it in some book that he was recommending, when I have read the book, I did not find the evidence that the apologist claimed was there.

I have provided a quotation from the book. I have also provided a link to it on Google books where the passage and its context are available for reading.

04-15-2009, 03:44 PM	#24
No Robots Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 5,679	For arguments supporting this, see Mohammed By Tor Andrae: Mohammed received from the Nestorians of Persia the impressions which decisively influenced his personal religious message.--p. 90.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.