Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GakuseiDon · 04-14-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoyoteTheClever

I understand the bit of Jesus flying in and changing all of the old laws and such, but this seems a little bit extreme. Didn't their God claim to be the same God as Moses'? So how can all of that just be merely mythology to a Christian?

I'm a liberal Christian who thinks that Genesis is myth. Isn't that the standard view for anyone who doesn't take it literally? I'm not sure why you see that this is a problem.

aa5874 · 04-14-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by judge

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoyoteTheClever

I understand the bit of Jesus flying in and changing all of the old laws and such, but this seems a little bit extreme. Didn't their God claim to be the same God as Moses'? So how can all of that just be merely mythology to a Christian?

Even Paul sees Genesis as figurative.

Quote:

21Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.
24These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written:
"Be glad, O barren woman,
who bears no children;
break forth and cry aloud,
you who have no labor pains;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband."

If Abraham and the women may be taken figuatively, that means "Paul" was indeed a myth or figurative. Paul is of the seed of Abraham.

Look at Romans 11:1 - [quote ]
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For [b]I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.[/quote]

These things may be taken figuratively.

aa5874 · 04-14-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by judge

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoyoteTheClever

I understand the bit of Jesus flying in and changing all of the old laws and such, but this seems a little bit extreme. Didn't their God claim to be the same God as Moses'? So how can all of that just be merely mythology to a Christian?

Even Paul sees Genesis as figurative.

Quote:

21Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.
24These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written:
"Be glad, O barren woman,
who bears no children;
break forth and cry aloud,
you who have no labor pains;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband."

If Abraham and the women may be taken figuatively, that means "Paul" was indeed a myth or figurative. Paul is of the seed of Abraham.

Look at Romans 11:1 -

Quote:

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

These things may be taken figuratively.

spamandham · 04-14-2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowy Man

And I am further confused by their strong attachment to such things as the Ten Commandments and *some* of the Leviticus rules. Some, as in they hate gays but not lobsters. :huh:

...unless the lobster is gay of course, then they hate it.

Petergdi · 04-14-2009, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

If Abraham and the women may be taken figuatively, that means "Paul" was indeed a myth or figurative. Paul is of the seed of Abraham.

Look at Romans 11:1 -

Quote:

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

These things may be taken figuratively.

Paul's obvious meaning is that he was born a Israelite from a family which had a tradition of being Benjaminites. This does not in any way depend upon Abraham, Jacob (Israel) and Benjamin as described in Genesis as being strictly historical figures.

If Abraham, Jacob (Israel) and Benjamin are not strictly historical they exist in Genesis to explain tribal and national groups. Even if there were such people, it is obviously a little too convenient that each generation in the patriarchal history in Genesis brings about a new division in related tribes and nations. But the national and tribal groupings which the patriarchal history seeks to explain were obviously things that already existed to require an explanation.

Peter.

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