andrewcriddle

Justin is attempting to argue two things at the same time.

a/ There are more similarities between Paganism and Christianity, than (most )Pagans are prepared to accept.

b/ These similarities do not mean that Christianity and Paganism are both true. Paganism is (among other things) a bogus attempt, inspired by evil spirits, to fulfil the Hebrew Scriptures, while Christianity is the true authentic fulfilment of the Hebrew Scriptures. Hence, despite Paganism being chronologically older than Christianity, it is a false imitation of Christian truth.

Andrew Criddle

Toto

Freke and Gandy did not invent the term 'plagiarism by anticipation.' It goes back to the nineteenth century, and reflects a standard understanding of Justin Martyr.

GakuseiDon

That is a link to my website, so those comments are mine. Early Christians believed that the pagan gods existed, but they were in fact evil demons pretending to be gods, hanging around sites of worships, creating miracles to impress the pagans, and spreading lies about Christians.

For Justin Martyr, Satan used passages from the OT relating to Christ in order to inspire stories about the pagan gods. An example:

"And when they [the demons] knew what was said, as has been cited above, in the prophecies [of the Hebrew prophets] written aforetime, "Strong as a giant to run his course," they said that Hercules was strong, and had journeyed over the whole earth."

According to Justin, the OT predated the Greek myths (which is arguably true), therefore the pagans copied from the Hebrews. He has a point: how else to explain the similarity???

GakuseiDon

IIRC there was a thread several years ago (started by Peter Kirby?) involving where the ideas of 'diabolical mimicry' and 'plagiarism by anticipation' originated, but it was never resolved. Can you recall who used it in the 19th C, Toto?

andrewcriddle

"plagiarism by anticipation" seems to go back to the Theosophists see http://books.google.co.uk/books?as_q...=1910&as_isbn=

Andrew Criddle

GakuseiDon

Thanks for that, Andrew.

Toto

Diabolical Mimicry (2006)

Diabolical Mimicry (2007)

This is another of your pet projects, GDon.

The more I read about it, the more it appears that "plagiarism by anticipation" and "diabolical mimicry" are somewhat flippant and satirical characterizations of Justin's arguments. The orthodox Christians of the time thought that Christ was pre-existent, present at the beginning of time, so it wouldn't actually matter if the devil inspired pagan copies of the prophecies, or of Jesus' actual life.

The point is that there were similarities that needed to be explained, and the devil was part of the explanation.

I don't think that the Theosophists originated the term "diabolical mimicry" but I can't find an earlier citation right now.

How is that idea even arguably true? Does it not just show up Justin as a lying apologist?

Student of Sophia

Very interesting.

So, we have the OT, and the devil of the OT. The devil with access to heaven, the one whose job it is to serve as "the accuser" or "the adversary" in the Court or Council of God. And one day, presumably after the events in the book of Job, he diabolically decides to plagiarize the True Word of a literal anthropomorphic creator-God of the entire universe.

He decides to take the keys elements and forge paganism out of them. Does he forge every other religion/mythology that has elements in common with the OT? Why does he do it? To lead men astray?

Time passes. How much time?

And then along comes Christianity. And it is the true climax to the true word of God, and thus the satanic pagan plagiarisms are seen by the wise as the satanic forgeries that they are. It's the only way that such elements could be present in both paganism and Christianity and the OT. An entity must exist who has a role in all three. Satan.

So then we see that not only are the pagan gods actually devils under the control of the OT Satan, but we also see that Satan seems to have evolved into a being who no longer has access to God, who is evil incarnate, who is no longer able to serve a Courtly role as accuser before the Throne of God.

Now he wants the Throne itself. Now it's WAR.

Does that about sum it up?

GakuseiDon

Yep. I'm interested in the thinking of that time, generally.

I'd love to know who originated that term, so if you find anything that would be much appreciated.

I was making a hilariously funny comment that would leave the readers in stitches of laughter and amazed by my command of irony.

Student of Sophia

So presumably Satan created and spread his forgeries after being ejected from the The Divine Council? Or perhaps that was the crime that led to his ejection?

At one point, didn't the God at the head of that Council (El) rule among other gods (Elohim) in the Council, and didn't these other gods serve certain roles in the Council? And weren't all those gods and goddesses "demoted" to either angels or demons after a war in the Council...so that now there is only one true God?

Is that when Satan and his legion plagiarized elements from the OT? As part of a strategy against the God who ejected them from the Divine Council of El and cast them down to Earth?