Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sparrow · 03-03-2007, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by judge

I don't think the article suggests it would be any different to any other place. From anywhere in that region at least, Jupiter would have apparently been in the southern sky. It is just that Bethlehem was apparently just south of Jerusalem. One had to be viewing from Jerusalem to get the Bethlehem connection.

I thought the magi saw the 'star' in the east, not the south. Apparently there were no wise men in Athens, Rome or Alexandria because they would be directed to the wrong location.

Quote:

Whether one can rely on this 34 years from josephus is another question.
Josephus clearly contracdicts himself WRT to date of the death of Herod. On the one hand he indicates it must have been around 4 BCE (some seem to think 3BCE), on the other hand he is quite plain that there was a lunar eclipse shortly before and that passover followed.

Using this data, also from Josephus 1BCE is the only year that fits.

Luke refers to the first Census under Quirinius, or perhaps the first one when Quirinius was governor.
Implying here that there were two census, or perhaps that Quirinius was governor twice.
Why would Luke include the word "first"?
If Luke wished to point to the Census in 6BCE he would just have the said "the Census when Qurinius was govenor" wouldn't he?

It sounds more to me like the authors of the various gospels were writing historical fiction and not history. Since we don't have the originals of any of these works, including Josephus, we don't know what the authors actually wrote.

judge · 03-03-2007, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow

I thought the magi saw the 'star' in the east, not the south.

Well if the star was first observed at dawn , rising heliacally, then it would have to be viewed in the east. As Jupiter travelled along the ecliptic, which itself, , is off centre, it would I presume, be possible at some point, as they were in the northern hemisphere, to view the star in the south.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Apparently there were no wise men in Athens, Rome or Alexandria because they would be directed to the wrong location.

Yes, Bethlehem is not just south of any of these locations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow

It sounds more to me like the authors of the various gospels were writing historical fiction and not history. Since we don't have the originals of any of these works, including Josephus, we don't know what the authors actually wrote.

Yes well that is always possible, the point I had made was that if one wishes to belive these things one can find explanations, not that anyone should believe it.

Toto · 03-03-2007, 04:33 PM

Chili and Boro Nut have been split off here for clarity.

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03-03-2007, 04:33 PM	#53
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Chili and Boro Nut have been split off here for clarity.

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