Freethought & Rationalism Archive

douglas · 03-08-2007, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

The young man is John at the foot of the cross.

But doesn't this go against Jewish custom? Was it not the custom that the eldest son takes responsibility for the mother? Jesus would most likely have handed responsibility over to his brother James, and not an unrelated apostle. Even a half-brother would have been given preference.

I agree with Tabor. If this event actually occurred, Jesus would have fingered James. The "beloved disciple" may very well be John, but this was just the writer of GJohn's attempt to embellish John's position and status.

The writer of John was trying to create a gospel that superseded the other existing gospels. In order to do that, he had to position John as "the beloved disciple." Propoganda - pure and simple.

figuer · 03-08-2007, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

Then how do you know it's "bad pop-fiction"?

BASIC INSTINCT

Malachi151 · 03-08-2007, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by douglas

I was reading Dr. Tabor's responses to some questions on the Discovery Channel and this quote caught my eye:

I don't know how this could be anything more than pure speculation, but is there circumstantial evidence in the gospels that lend support to the idea that the streaker in Mark could be a reference to Jesus' son? Could this be Mark's way of telling his readers that Jesus' son went into hiding, shedding any connection with his family, immediately after his arrest?

What say you!

p.s. Was this brought up in the Davinci Code? I'm the only person on earth who hasn't read the book.

I don't find this on his blog, where did you quote this from?

douglas · 03-08-2007, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malachi151

I don't find this on his blog, where did you quote this from?

It was from the Discovery Channel's discussion forum...

http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence...rum/forum.html

... in the "Expert Q&A: for Dr. James D. Tabor" section.

Chili · 03-08-2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by douglas

But doesn't this go against Jewish custom? Was it not the custom that the eldest son takes responsibility for the mother? Jesus would most likely have handed responsibility over to his brother James, and not an unrelated apostle. Even a half-brother would have been given preference.

I agree with Tabor. If this event actually occurred, Jesus would have fingered James. The "beloved disciple" may very well be John, but this was just the writer of GJohn's attempt to embellish John's position and status.

The writer of John was trying to create a gospel that superseded the other existing gospels. In order to do that, he had to position John as "the beloved disciple." Propoganda - pure and simple.

But Jesus and John were bosom buddies, John was from the netherworld or subconscious mind and Jesus was from the conscious mind of Joseph.

The Annunciation took place in the subconscious mind which is the home of Mary (where she was held captive by the integrity of Joseph, ie, virgin) and that came across to Joseph as a dream in his conscious mind.

The firstborn is not the same as the eldest son.

From water and spirit means from the subconscious and conscious mind because the dove will descend and so the source of the HS must be on hand, which is Mary. The angel of light will replace the HS but we all know where he gets his input from.

Chili · 03-08-2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by douglas

But doesn't this go against Jewish custom? Was it not the custom that the eldest son takes responsibility for the mother? Jesus would most likely have handed responsibility over to his brother James, and not an unrelated apostle. Even a half-brother would have been given preference.

Douglas, you must always remember that "those who know don't say and those who say don't know," to say that one must read between the lines and make an induction story out of it wherein you fill in the blanks as if they were prior to you by nature.

Quote:

The writer of John was trying to create a gospel that superseded the other existing gospels. In order to do that, he had to position John as "the beloved disciple." Propoganda - pure and simple.

He did create a Gospel and a very Catholic one at that. The four Gospels show this quite clear if you throw out the synoptic syndrome. It was in Matthew that the faith of Peter was identified that was genuine and true enough to become the primary source of truth in Catholicsm (beyond the sins that Jesus died for -- to give Paul a break).

Then in Mark all Judaism was thrown out to leave the naked physics to which in Luke the metaphysics of Catholicsm were added to end up in John with a very practical true to life faith journey. For example notice the geneology and the fact that there is no infancy narrative in both Mark and John.

Dastrn · 03-08-2007, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figuer

Your pretensions of exclusivity are misplaced. I haven't read the book, nor do I intend to (I don't have time to lose reading bad pop-fiction).

it was actually GOOD fiction.

Dastrn · 03-08-2007, 04:25 PM

common theory among scholars is that the young naked man was mark himself. that part of the story stuck out in his mind because it was traumatic for him. mark was a student of peter's after christ's death, which is why peters character is emphasized so much in mark's gospel.

Malachi151 · 03-08-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dastrn

common theory among scholars is that the young naked man was mark himself. that part of the story stuck out in his mind because it was traumatic for him. mark was a student of peter's after christ's death, which is why peters character is emphasized so much in mark's gospel.

Oh please, that is absurd. As I said, I have provided the answer. BTW, I know that's not your personal answer, I'm calling the so called scholars who came up with that absurd, not you.

douglas · 03-08-2007, 05:05 PM

I don't understand this comment by Tabor?

Quote:

There is also that young man who runs away naked at the arrest of Jesus, only in Mark. He was with the group, at the last supper and arrest. Who is he?

The naked young man was at the last supper? :huh:

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

03-08-2007, 04:25 PM	#18
Dastrn New Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indiana, USA Posts: 4	common theory among scholars is that the young naked man was mark himself. that part of the story stuck out in his mind because it was traumatic for him. mark was a student of peter's after christ's death, which is why peters character is emphasized so much in mark's gospel.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.