XKV8R

it's almost as if the artist (or someone) created a hanukiah on top, but a menorah trunk. two of the "candle holders" don't connect to the trunk, but they are not symmetrical.

did someone attempt to remedy an anachronistic hanukiah in this text after the fact? i'm not aware of the 8+shamash tradition reaching this far back. all of the candelabras i see in the first and second centuries (mosaics at tiberias, sepphoris, the arch of titus), all have 7. i always thought that 8+shamash tradition came along much later, but i'm not sure.

if a forger accidentally put in a hanukiah instead of a typical menorah, it may need a remedy...

XKV8R

so does that mean this 'text' was much later than the news reports (and owners) had hoped??

stephan huller

Could be. What's strange is the mixture of old writing and the nine branched menorah. But there is so much we don't know ...

stephan huller

There's nothing more Jewish (and un-Samaritan) than hannukiah. There is nothing more Samaritan than the use of old Hebrew script in the later period. There are three obvious scenarios. It comes from a very early period or it is a fake or it comes from a culture we don't have a flipping clue about. It wouldn't take much to imitate the old script. But why fuck up the hannukiah? How hard would it be to draw eight connecting branches? Since I am lazy I always wonder why take the effort to do something badly. But money is always a motive. Yet here those efforts failed because the object was placed in a cave in Jordan. Surely an organized group of forgers would have researched how the scenario would have unfolded and placed it in some cave somewhere else. They managed to get lead with the right amount of oxidation and old leather. They seemed to have had their act together only to be foiled by geography. But then again stupid people are everywhere.

stephan huller

I am leaning towards the idea that if it is not a fake it is a Jewish (i.e. non-Christian) messianic group from some early period (early meaning from a period when Jews would conceivably have still used the old script). The obvious guess is the Bar Kochba revolt. But we still have to get over the hurdle that it isn't a fake and we are by no means there yet.

stephan huller

Apparently (and incredibly) the association of nine-branch menorah images is not entirely incompatible with Samaritan synagogues. From a recent book reporting on evidence of the menorah from Samaritan sites:

My friend Benny will know all about this. They have a museum in Holon and they generally keep track of this stuff. If I ask him 'do Samaritans have hannukiah?' he will accuse me of projecting my Jewish beliefs on his culture but if I say, what about this archaeological site? He might approach things differently. He was supposed to come to see Obama with Charlesworth to pick up some honor. I haven't spoken with him since last year.

stephan huller

It would also be natural for a Jewish revolutionary group to adopt a symbol associated with Hannukah especially if it were those involved in the bar Kochba revolt given that the hannukiah symbol embodies the 'miracle' of the victory of the Maccabees over the Seleucids and the rededication of the Temple in 165 BCE - in other words, the oil lasting eight days. Without having enough information to make an informed opinion there is nothing so far in the evidence which makes it impossible to be a remnant of the Jewish revolts against Roman rule.

stephan huller

If we go from the big green splotch reading left to right (as I sit pretending to be working at my desk) I see:

unknown letter, nun, shin, no clue from here on

unknown letter, ayin, tav, resh (dalet?), nun, shin, bit, mim, no clue

maryhelena

And if the symbol of the Hanukkah menorah has one of it's branches chopped off? Perhaps it's not victory that is sought but acknowledgment of defeat! If the 9 candle menorah was in celebration of victory and re dedication of the temple in 165 bc - then perhaps the chopping down of a branch might symbolize that the temple, once again, was being defiled? Which brings to mind, from a Hasmonean perspective, the events following the disastrous end for Antigonus in 37 bc and Herod the Great henceforth in charge of the Jerusalem temple and it's priesthood.

Just a wild long shot - so don't try shooting the messenger

stephan huller

I see no evidence of the branch being 'chopped off.' But who knows at this point