Freethought & Rationalism Archive

HelpingHand · 12-29-2012, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George S

In the ancient world, names were said to have power.

In a sense, to say that phrase means: I have no name. There is no word that encompasses all that I am. HaYaH uses the HYH triplet of consonants that is associated with the general concept of being.

אֶהְיֶה (transliterated ehyeh) is sometimes translated as I am, but also translated will be or shall be.

I am the essence of being, perhaps. Everything that exists at all I am, was and shall be.

Wouldn't "I am the essence of being" denote some kind of Thomistic idea "avant-la-lettre?"

George S · 12-29-2012, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HelpingHand

Quote:

Originally Posted by George S

In the ancient world, names were said to have power.

In a sense, to say that phrase means: I have no name. There is no word that encompasses all that I am. HaYaH uses the HYH triplet of consonants that is associated with the general concept of being.

אֶהְיֶה (transliterated ehyeh) is sometimes translated as I am, but also translated will be or shall be.

I am the essence of being, perhaps. Everything that exists at all I am, was and shall be.

Wouldn't "I am the essence of being" denote some kind of Thomistic idea "avant-la-lettre?"

Made me read a bit on Thomism.

Avant la lettre literally means before the letter. Used to describe the thing to be engraved, for example. So, before the first word was written.

But the Bible also has "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." -- John 1

Thomas II · 12-29-2012, 12:05 PM

I am (the cause of) existence...

Underseer · 12-30-2012, 03:20 AM

I had no idea we had so many posters that familiar with Hebrew. Thanks for all the information.

Wayne Delia · 12-30-2012, 06:39 AM

"I am that I am." (Yahweh)
"I think, therefore I am." (Rene Descartes)
"I am what I am and that's all that I am, I'm Popeye the Sailor Man." (Popeye)
"I am a rock, I am an island." (Paul Simon)
"What I am is what I am, are you what you are, or what?" (Edie Brickell - Mrs. Paul Simon)
"I am, I am Superman, and I can do anything." (R.E.M.)

jonJ · 12-30-2012, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Delia

"I am that I am." (Yahweh)
"I think, therefore I am." (Rene Descartes)
"I am what I am and that's all that I am, I'm Popeye the Sailor Man." (Popeye)
"I am a rock, I am an island." (Paul Simon)
"What I am is what I am, are you what you are, or what?" (Edie Brickell - Mrs. Paul Simon)
"I am, I am Superman, and I can do anything." (R.E.M.)

"I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I know I am... today." -- Russell Morris

GenesisNemesis · 12-30-2012, 03:53 PM

It's just a tautology, like A is A.

Jaybees · 12-30-2012, 04:46 PM

I'm curious, but not curious enough to research the possibility that there already exist various "authoritative" English versions of that scriptural phrase: "I am that I am".

Anyone here know any "accepted" variations in various bible translations?

Lugubert · 12-31-2012, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George S

(Entire Wiki article on Causal Case: "The causal or causative case (abbreviated caus) is a grammatical case that indicates that the marked noun is the cause or reason for something. It is found in the Dravidian language Telugu and the Native South American language Quechua."

I am surprised that Hebrew wasn't mentioned.)

No surprise. Hebrew nouns have no causative case. Shesh discusses causative verbs. The verbal causative Wiki article is here.

But I'm not so sure that HWH 'be, become' has causative force in itself. The form in the Ex. quote hasn't causative format (I think no causative verb form can start with 'e), but is an imperfect indicative.

Malintent · 01-02-2013, 12:00 PM

I was aware that millions of Christians can't even begin to agree on what the bible means, but I wasn't aware that the problem was this profound.. they can't even agree on the salutation? jeez!

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12-29-2012, 12:05 PM	#13
Thomas II Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 8,254	I am (the cause of) existence...

12-30-2012, 03:20 AM	#14
Underseer Contributor Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago suburbs Posts: 39,172	I had no idea we had so many posters that familiar with Hebrew. Thanks for all the information.

12-30-2012, 06:39 AM	#15
Wayne Delia Contributor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Hudson Valley, NY Posts: 10,056	"I am that I am." (Yahweh) "I think, therefore I am." (Rene Descartes) "I am what I am and that's all that I am, I'm Popeye the Sailor Man." (Popeye) "I am a rock, I am an island." (Paul Simon) "What I am is what I am, are you what you are, or what?" (Edie Brickell - Mrs. Paul Simon) "I am, I am Superman, and I can do anything." (R.E.M.)

12-30-2012, 03:53 PM	#17
GenesisNemesis Contributor Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A pale blue oblate spheroid. Posts: 20,351	It's just a tautology, like A is A.

12-30-2012, 04:46 PM	#18
Jaybees Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Hawaii Posts: 9,233	I'm curious, but not curious enough to research the possibility that there already exist various "authoritative" English versions of that scriptural phrase: "I am that I am". Anyone here know any "accepted" variations in various bible translations?

01-02-2013, 12:00 PM	#20
Malintent Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: North Eastern United States Posts: 3,383	I was aware that millions of Christians can't even begin to agree on what the bible means, but I wasn't aware that the problem was this profound.. they can't even agree on the salutation? jeez!

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