Freethought & Rationalism Archive

sotto voce · 01-26-2012, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsonic

Quote:

Writings that do not evince belief in the crucifixion of Jesus cannot be Christian.

so you admit that their was doubt over the crucifixion?

Why would anyone think that?

When will mrsonic stop asking leading questions?

When will mrsonic use a sentence without a pronoun?

Chili · 01-26-2012, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

[

You are over analyzing, I doubt the writers were that complex. Pgagmatically it is rather inconvienient to have the deity hanging around on Earth, cramps the style of the faithful.

The gospels were promotional literature to sell the mesage, certainly embellished.

Yes I understand and am not trying to convince you either. Just saying that those in the know will not say and only the wannebe's would.

And have you ever throught that Gutenburg was a large yeast factory? and blessed are those who do not have to rise from it.

James Brown · 01-26-2012, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy

Quote:

Originally Posted by barre

What is the evidence for or against a Roman crucifixion of Jesus?

Doesn't Acts tell us Jesus was hung from a tree by the Jews? If Acts was really written later than the gospels does this not represent the early Xian view on his death?

Yes, twice in Acts the text reads that Jesus was slain and hung on a tree (5:30, 10:39.)

Which interestingly enough is the reverse order of the events listed in the gospels.

steve_bnk · 01-26-2012, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

[

You are over analyzing, I doubt the writers were that complex. Pgagmatically it is rather inconvienient to have the deity hanging around on Earth, cramps the style of the faithful.

The gospels were promotional literature to sell the mesage, certainly embellished.

Yes I understand and am not trying to convince you either. Just saying that those in the know will not say and only the wannebe's would.

And have you ever throught that Gutenburg was a large yeast factory? and blessed are those who do not have to rise from it.

I do not have a clue what you are saying...

All'I said is just look at it as an adventure action story. Not my idea, got it from arecent PBS show on the history of Christianity.'

It seems obsessive to try and somehow deduce some imagined intent of the writings, it borders in theist biblical interpretation.

From the same show, the gospels in time sequence probly repesent a changing theolgy and message. JC begins as an acerbic wise guy and morphs to the more mystical deity.

andrewcriddle · 01-26-2012, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesABrown

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

Pilate is surprised at Jesus dying so quickly.

Crucifixion was an intentionally slow means of execution. One could linger in pain for more than a day.

Andrew Criddle

That's the problem. Having put Jesus up on a cross with the intention of having him linger there for a long time, up to and including offering him liquids to prolong his agony, they then decide that he needs to hurry up and die before sundown. So when Pilate finds out he's dead before sundown, Pilate's reaction isn't "Good, we made the deadline," it's "What? So soon? How can he be dead so quickly?"

Doesn't make sense.

If you mean that it is difficult to reconcile some of the details of the account in Mark with some of the details of the account in John, then I agree.

However the account of Pilate in Mark being surprised at Jesus' early death causes no real problems within Mark's narrative.

Andrew Criddle

sotto voce · 01-26-2012, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesABrown

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy

Quote:

Originally Posted by barre

What is the evidence for or against a Roman crucifixion of Jesus?

Doesn't Acts tell us Jesus was hung from a tree by the Jews? If Acts was really written later than the gospels does this not represent the early Xian view on his death?

Yes, twice in Acts the text reads that Jesus was slain and hung on a tree (5:30, 10:39.)

Which interestingly enough is the reverse order of the events listed in the gospels.

One wonders why anyone would kill a person then hang him on a tree.

Tom Sawyer · 01-26-2012, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

One wonders why anyone would kill a person then hang him on a tree.

As an example to others. Historically speaking, it's actually not an uncommon occurance.

sotto voce · 01-26-2012, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

One wonders why anyone would kill a person then hang him on a tree.

Quote:

As an example to others.

The usual method was to place the severed head on a post in a prominent urban location like a city gate or square. Not under a tree, where the person may not be identified if even noticed.

But if this death never occurred, why is a discrepancy of this nature of importance?

Tom Sawyer · 01-26-2012, 12:35 PM

Yes. It's almost like the Bible is self-contradictory and makes no sense.

sotto voce · 01-26-2012, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

Yes. It's almost like the Bible is self-contradictory and makes no sense.

It's self-contradictory to say that Jesus was hanged on a tree as an example to others and agree that it's true that this would not have been done.

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01-26-2012, 12:35 PM	#69
Tom Sawyer Talk Freethought Staff Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto, eh Posts: 42,293	Yes. It's almost like the Bible is self-contradictory and makes no sense.

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