razlyubleno

I think this might all depend on how numerous Christians were at the time. If they (Josephus & Philo) hadn't been picky about what they recorded, we can anticipate an RSI or two. Hand-cramps, at the least.

I clearly don't give enough credit to the, uhm, ingenuity and, ahh, creativity of apologetic literature. These people are baffling, aren't they?

Just ask yourself, does he fit perfectly into the plot structure? To say it more clearly, when you read about him, does it feel as though he supports the overall thesis of the gospel? Even if you assume historicity, the structure of the plot, the purpose of the plot, is preconceived. If something perfectly upholds the thesis of the story, then it's a bet worth making that it is fictional. Joseph gave the Son of God, the fulfiller of Jewish messianic expectations, a proper Jewish burial? Is that a little convenient? And then, this allows for the empty tomb story, which would not have been possible otherwise. Too convenient, really.

I can't cite a source, since I don't remember where I read it, but it was said somewhere that Jesus would have been left on the cross, because the point of crucifixion was to cause the utmost public humiliation. For the birds to eat the corpse like carrion. Crucifixion was intended to work as a deterrent. It had to be public, and absolutely horrifying.

Exactly. This is what I mean by the attractiveness of aesthetic ideas. But it isn't just cultural. Even in this modern age of cheap porn, higher tolerance of random sleaziness, ready indulgence of addictions, etc., there are still people (and plenty of them) who cloister themselves in a bubble of self-control and feel better in themselves for it. That sort of thing can make you feel damn special and righteous, and that goes for any century.

razly

Switch89

"I think this might all depend on how numerous Christians were at the time. If they (Josephus & Philo) hadn't been picky about what they recorded, we can anticipate an RSI or two. Hand-cramps, at the least."

If it really happened I would expect lots of people besides the christians to be saying so. P&J should have caught such fantastic rumors amongst their own people, that is, if anyone besides a small cult believed them.

As for Joseph of Arimathea, the suffering servant of Isaiah 53 was supposed to be buried by a rich man, and I believe that Jesus was modeled to fit Isaiah 53. This is something which makes me think JofA is a myth. However, I think I can comfortably grant the assumption that Jesus was buried and still have a solid case. Even if it was not by JofA, Jesus could have been buried by someone else. JJ Lowder has an excellent article about this issue:

http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...der/empty.html

Toto

Rise of Christianity (or via: amazon.co.uk) - Amazon has some used copies for $6.50. There is a google book version of a book with a slightly different title which seems to be substantially the same.

I am not sure I would recommend buying it. But you can find a few threads on it in this forum from some years ago, here and here.

I think there are some flaws in the work, but you can't really publish anything on early Christiantiy and quote Gibbon but not Stark.

Switch89

Thanks Toto. I had looked at the hardcover edition and it is $46!!!