Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sheshbazzar · 02-07-2013, 10:43 PM

Hung up on it. What's wrong with trying to accurately parse and understand that information provided to us by Philo?

With or without your positive assistance, I will continue to undertake doing so, as I believe these texts deserve a much better examination than what you have been willing to assist us with. And there are some important points that need to be brought out.
That said;

These Thereaputae lived in very plain and basic houses;

Quote:

(24) But the houses of these men thus congregated together are very plain,
just giving shelter in respect of the two things most important to be provided against, the heat of the sun, and the cold from the open air;

and they did not live near to one another as men do in cities,
for immediate neighbourhood to others would be a troublesome and unpleasant thing to men who have conceived an admiration for, and have determined to devote themselves to, solitude;

and, on the other hand, they did not live very far from one another on account of the fellowship which they desire to cultivate, and because of the desirableness of being able to assist one another if they should be attacked by robbers.

(25) And in every house there is a sacred shrine which is called the holy place,
and the monastery in which they retire by themselves and perform all the mysteries of a holy life, bringing in nothing, neither meat, nor drink, nor anything else which is indispensable towards supplying the necessities of the body, but studying in that place the laws and the sacred oracles of God enunciated by the holy prophets, and hymns, and psalms, and all kinds of other things by reason of which knowledge and piety are increased and brought to perfection.

Now here is an interesting point which I wish to bring out;
"and the monastery in which they retire by themselves" in other words -each of these individual houses- was regarded as being an independent 'monastery'. (hermitage?)

That this was Philo's understanding and intention is further born out by;

Quote:

(30) Therefore, during six days, each of these individuals, -retiring into solitude by himself, -philosophises by himself

-in one of the places called 'monasteries',

never going outside the threshold of the outer court, and indeed never even looking out.

But on the seventh day they all come together as if to meet in a sacred assembly, and they sit down in order according to their ages

Their individual plain and basic houses were each and everyone regarded as being a separate 'monastery'. This would explain why each had its own 'Holy place' or 'shrine'.
But we are left to wonder exactly what that 'shrine' or 'Holy Place' may have consisted of and what it was that it may have contained.

The community meeting place where they came together on the seventh day. (I presume that is the Seventh Day of the 'Jewish' week, -Sunday not having yet displaced THE SABBATH) is described in some detail in (32) (33) & (81) and is referred to as the 'common Holy Place' (32) and 'holy (outer) Temple'(81), hence there was a 'Holy Temple' as their common meeting place for gathering for communal worship and for taking their meals, but no where does Philo ever refer to this communal Temple building itself as being a 'monastery'.

Thus, their individual houses 'monasteries' were totally off limits for eating and drinking (25), or any of the types of things that go on within normal households, but were not houses in the normal sense, being religious structures strictly reserved for -individual solitude- and religious study.

And this is Philo's description whether one choses to see these Thereaputae as being Jewish, or proto-christian, or as an otherwise unidentified independent Ethiopian religious sect.

This certainly is not the Etheopian model that now prevails, although what now is may have evolved out of this, There were some very big differences.
Principally being the six days a week of hermit like seclusion by each individual Theraputae within their own individual 'monastery' where no food or drink, and likely restrictions upon allowing even normal bodily functions such as urination and defecation during the day (25)
( they came out in the evenings for their meals and other nescessary tasks,(28) but Philo also informs of some such who attempted to endure the entire six day duration of isolation. (34)(35)

This was a select 'Holy' group, that to survive and to remain faithful to their extremely restricted ascetic life-style, would have required a larges staff of assitants to do all of the labors that they would have not had time for. Likely given the further detail provided by Philo, that they actually were active workers during the evenings, employing and enjoying the rather cooler working conditions.

stephan huller · 02-07-2013, 10:58 PM

It's unusual to have man men living together.

Sheshbazzar · 02-07-2013, 11:52 PM

In the 'monasticism' of Catholicism it was (and still is) not uncommon for many men to live out virtually their entire lives in Monasteries together.
(with NO female participation or contact) some have lived eighty years or more without ever coming near or even seeing a woman. Weird but 'holy')

And they base that practice on what they think was written by Philo, (of course the requirements were extensively 'adjusted' by Catholic 'authority')
But as I here explicated, that form of Monasticism described by Philo was considerably different than what evolved in Catholicism.

stephan huller · 02-08-2013, 12:00 AM

So what?

stephan huller · 02-08-2013, 12:02 AM

Quote:

I was greeted by a monk dressed in bright yellow robes. We went into a circular inner chamber called the "Holy of Holies", with 12 doors, representing the 12 apostles, encircling it.

"Only priests and monks are permitted to enter the "Holy of Holies". This is where we keep the Tabot, which is a replica of the Arc of the Covenant," my guide explained.

"Every one of the 30,000 churches and monasteries in Ethiopia keeps a Tabot," Girma said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1560736.stm

stephan huller · 02-08-2013, 12:03 AM

On the parallels between the calendar of the Therapeutae and the Falashas:

http://books.google.com/books?id=m2n...iopian&f=false

stephan huller · 02-08-2013, 12:05 AM

More similarities noted between the Falashas and the Therapeutae:

Quote:

The Falasha communal meal taken on the Sabbath in the masgid resembles the agape of the Therapeutae or Essenes (Conti Rossini, "Appunti," p. 604)

http://books.google.com/books?id=6hE...ed=0CDYQ6AEwAQ

stephan huller · 02-08-2013, 12:06 AM

Parallels between the calendar of the Therapeutae and the Samaritans:

http://books.google.com/books?id=N80...alasha&f=false

stephan huller · 02-08-2013, 12:08 AM

Vetus Testamentum, Volume 5 (1955) More on Jewish/Christian groups with a similar calendar:

Quote:

the Therapeutae corresponded closely, or even exactly, to the calendars of the Galileans and the Nestorian Christians and also to that of the Book of Jubilees. The Falashas too employ in their reckoning of the festivals and sacred days a calendar which plainly represents the persistence of the ancient pentecontad calendar, though with the customary modifications already noted

http://books.google.com/books?id=eX0...ed=0CDAQ6AEwAA

Sheshbazzar · 02-08-2013, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

So what?

Quote:

Originally Posted by stepan huller

Men don't usually live together.

So some very religious men have a very looong history of living together. Does everything need to be a stupid argument?

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02-07-2013, 10:58 PM	#682
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	It's unusual to have man men living together.

02-07-2013, 11:52 PM	#683
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	In the 'monasticism' of Catholicism it was (and still is) not uncommon for many men to live out virtually their entire lives in Monasteries together. (with NO female participation or contact) some have lived eighty years or more without ever coming near or even seeing a woman. Weird but 'holy') And they base that practice on what they think was written by Philo, (of course the requirements were extensively 'adjusted' by Catholic 'authority') But as I here explicated, that form of Monasticism described by Philo was considerably different than what evolved in Catholicism.

02-08-2013, 12:00 AM	#684
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	So what?

02-08-2013, 12:03 AM	#686
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	On the parallels between the calendar of the Therapeutae and the Falashas: http://books.google.com/books?id=m2n...iopian&f=false

02-08-2013, 12:06 AM	#688
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Parallels between the calendar of the Therapeutae and the Samaritans: http://books.google.com/books?id=N80...alasha&f=false

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