Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ligesh · 02-09-2006, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David M. Payne

Hi guys, it's been a while since my last post but I thought I'd share this letter to the editor that the Reno Gazette-Journal ran today from me. Given how conservative this paper is I'm surprised they ran it at all.
Deuteronomy 24-16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

And:

Ezekiel 18-20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.

David

That god is the cause of religious warfare seems almost a tautology to me. And I think God actually encourages ALL war. Not just the religious ones.

NZSkep · 02-09-2006, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Holy wars were invented by Darius.

The guy off pop idol in the uk a couple of years ago, or Darius from Persia?

southernhybrid · 02-09-2006, 05:36 AM

The negative aspects of religion have little to do with the invention of the supreme being imo. At least not when you're trying to explain holy wars. They are more about tribalism or to put it in more modern terms, ingrouping. Ingrouping is a human universal, present in all known past and present cultures. ( yeah, I know I've said this before ) When the group becomes too fanatical, or very intolerant toward other groups, you have the possibility of war, or other forms of violence directed at those outside of the group. Whether the wars are political or religious in nature, they are a result of excessive ingrouping.

I think that concepts like nationalism are a result of this type of ingrouping. Nationalism doesn't necessarily have anything to do with religion, unless the country in question is a theocracy. Secular nationalism can be just as dangerous as theocratic nationalism.

God is pretend. We atheists know that. Why do we keep blaming a fictional character for so many problems?

ligesh · 02-09-2006, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southernhybrid

I think that concepts like nationalism are a result of this type of ingrouping. Nationalism doesn't necessarily have anything to do with religion, unless the country in question is a theocracy. Secular nationalism can be just as dangerous as theocratic nationalism.

God is pretend. We atheists know that. Why do we keep blaming a fictional character for so many problems?

God means belief in God. and this psychological trait is what we are discussing about. And as I said, this particular human attribute contributes not only to religious wars, but even wars that are carried out in the name of secular entities like nations or ideologies.

God, if he really exists, wouldn't be responsible for all these--at least not in the ordinary sense. Maybe we can say that the omni-max god is responsible for everything in this world, and thus hold this god culpable, but other than that when we say god we mean belief-in-god, and this entity is a a potent fomenter of all sorts of conflicts, and makes men engage in extremely risky enterprises causing harm to oneself and others.

--
:: Ligesh :: http://ligesh.com

Jobar · 02-09-2006, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountain Man

I'm just playing with WT like a cat plays with a mouse before it kills and eats it.

[Monty Python] I'll have a piece of strawberry tart without so much WILLOWTREE in it, please.

one piece of strawberry tart without so much WILLOWTREE in it, later-

Appalling!
[/Monty Python]

I have to admit though, it's unusual to find a believer who is so up-front about the moral vacuity of their religion. For WT, there's no right, only might.

I'd like to see his opinions spread far and wide. Such blatant doublespeak should repulse all but the most brainwashed and mindless.

David M. Payne · 02-09-2006, 05:37 PM

Hi Jobar, nice to see you are still here. Well I just got my new camera a Panasonic HVX200p which shoots in 1080i HD. So you guys have fun here, I'm back to working on "Holy War" with my new equipment.

David

Jobar · 02-09-2006, 05:58 PM

Hey David! It seems that the admins have taken away our chew toy. Pity.

Glad to hear from you, too. And I look forward to seeing your work when it's ready. Count on at least one sale!

Dryhad · 02-09-2006, 06:06 PM

Absolutely not. Humans are the cause. This is an area both theists and atheists should agree on (though for vastly different reasons).

David M. Payne · 02-09-2006, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jobar

Hey David! It seems that the admins have taken away our chew toy. Pity.

Glad to hear from you, too. And I look forward to seeing your work when it's ready. Count on at least one sale!

After all that has happened here with me bud, and the way you stuck by my side, you will get a free DVD!

David

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02-09-2006, 05:36 AM	#33
southernhybrid Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: heavenly Georgia Posts: 3,862	The negative aspects of religion have little to do with the invention of the supreme being imo. At least not when you're trying to explain holy wars. They are more about tribalism or to put it in more modern terms, ingrouping. Ingrouping is a human universal, present in all known past and present cultures. ( yeah, I know I've said this before ) When the group becomes too fanatical, or very intolerant toward other groups, you have the possibility of war, or other forms of violence directed at those outside of the group. Whether the wars are political or religious in nature, they are a result of excessive ingrouping. I think that concepts like nationalism are a result of this type of ingrouping. Nationalism doesn't necessarily have anything to do with religion, unless the country in question is a theocracy. Secular nationalism can be just as dangerous as theocratic nationalism. God is pretend. We atheists know that. Why do we keep blaming a fictional character for so many problems?

02-09-2006, 05:37 PM	#36
David M. Payne Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The land of chain smoking, bible thumping, holy ro Posts: 1,248	Hi Jobar, nice to see you are still here. Well I just got my new camera a Panasonic HVX200p which shoots in 1080i HD. So you guys have fun here, I'm back to working on "Holy War" with my new equipment. David

02-09-2006, 05:58 PM	#37
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	Hey David! It seems that the admins have taken away our chew toy. Pity. Glad to hear from you, too. And I look forward to seeing your work when it's ready. Count on at least one sale!

02-09-2006, 06:06 PM	#38
Dryhad Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 2,035	Absolutely not. Humans are the cause. This is an area both theists and atheists should agree on (though for vastly different reasons).

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