beyelzu

I think that its a matter of degrees. I think that a theist is mistaken or ignorant or just plain wrong, they think that my very thoughts are sins and sins are evil. Now it is true that the preceding is a gross generalization, but many times it is accurate.

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From my perspective, it seems like it would depend on how it was used... If I proposed reasonable questions and comments and in response a person simply told me I was going to eternal hell, then I suppose that would be a stumbling block to rational discourse.

I have seen it used like that, although rarely, and I dont think that I have ever been told that in grd, or anywhwere else at iidb.

More often I think that it is used in a "why should you believe that, when you are risking hell" kind of way, which is dismissive to the argument. How can a xian entertain a belief when holding that belief is sinful??

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However, if it is an unexpressed belief, how is that a problem for rational discourse?

see above.

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Even if expressed, it is usually done in the probably vain hope that it will "wake a person up" to what is believed might be their future after death... That said, I doubt that many Christians would wish this fate on anyone and that is why many work in hopes of turning people toward salvation. I would imagine that many Christians believe what is written in 2 Peter 3:9: "He {God} is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." I also think that many Christians have hope and many even a belief that God would not condemn good people (perhaps not even "finitely bad people") to eternal hell... Like Magus, many would simply claim that they do not ultimately understand God's purpose except that he is supposed to be just and righteous...

Much as starboy would ridicule a xian in the hope to wake them up?????

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Finally, if you don't believe in the Christian hell, then why is it a stumbling block to rational discourse? I don't understand this really. If a muslim were to tell me I was going to muslim hell, since I don't believe in it, it would not bother me. If they were able to carry on a rational discussion in spite of this belief, I don't see the problem.

I find it offensive to be told that my believes are punishable by eternal damnation. It is really quite irritating.

Magus55

How have I treated you any worse? I'm not judging you by my standards, I'm stating what God says ( or the Bible if you want since you don't believe God inspired it). God says those who continue to live in sin without redemption will face punishment. I'd think you'd agree ( since you've had to edit tons of them) that i've been treated much worse on this board than I treat atheists.

Magus55

First of all, I don't think i'm mean or cruel to atheists at all. I've by insulted and hated a heck of a lot more by atheists than I've ever done to atheists. And second, this is an atheist board. Who else am I gonna use as an example? On RR, I might be more inclined to refer to both atheists and Catholics, since both are there.

And when have I judged you? God is the one who determined who would be in Hell, not me.


Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Gurdur

No.
You injected your own standards very much into this when you brought in what you considered justice.
Really ?
You're aware that the Bible --- especially the NT --- is vague on this point; you're intepreting the Bible in view of your own bias. Not a good idea.
Not the point of Livius' questions to you. Unfortunately. You've managed to side-track the discussion down a rather pointless alley.

Starboy

I'm not trying to wakeup anybody. Too many fools and idiots in the world and life is too short.

Starboy

livius drusus

Just out of curiosity, is it something specifically about this forum that they reject, are they in general not interested in such things?

Chalk it up to my English major, but Haran said "some christians" (3rd person) and you replied to that with "you" (2nd person). Hence my confusion. Not looking for trouble at all, you see. There's nobody here but a poor, benighted English major.

Biff the unclean

Sounds like disassociation to me. "I'm not constantly saying hateful derogatory things. I'm just telling you what God says."
This is where it gets difficult, for me, to comment only on the religion and not the individual. Since this is really a form of "cherry picking" but instead of picking out only the nicest parts only the nastiest are chosen. All the mitigating sentiments have been culled from the religion and what remains is the work of the individual. You no longer have the entire religion to comment on, but a God puppet.

Demigawd

BULLSHIT!!! You came to this board with the arrogant assumption that your faith in a literal interpretation of the bible makes you privy to all sorts of knowledge that trumps any and all scholarly study out there. When you were pointed to areas of study to consider, you turned tail. Yet, you continuously spout the fundie line that "God said it! That settles it!"

If you consider yourself the worse on the scorn scale, then you, in your zealotry, have earned it.

Fortunately, your statements concerning your future career options leads me to think you are a teenager, and as such, a very impressionable person. Hopefully, when, and if, you attend a non-religious-affiliated university, you will see the errors of your ways, and learn what the quest for knowledge and wisdom really is. Hint: No particular religion has a monopoly on these things. Go to an Unitarian Universalist church to witness the worth of inclusion over fundie exclusion.

livius drusus

What are your standards for judgement? Do you treat everybody based on their eternal destination? The Bible, after all, is replete with behavioral requirements for its adherents involving generosity, forgiveness, cheek-turning and all that. I don't recall those being conditional on the state of grace of the people with whom you are interacting.

If you've followed this thread you know my position on the manner in which you've been treated, but you still seem all too keen to make contemptuous generalizations about all atheists based on the people who have jumped you. How about all the atheists on this thread who have said ridicule is cruel and ineffective and counterproductive? Your doctrinal statements about our eventual doom are not only derailments, but they are a big fuck you to those of us who practice the Golden Rule, which is, need I point out, another Biblical doctrine, but one you seem far more reluctant to employ.

Gurdur

Yeah, well Magus55 could always convert to the Very Angry Atheist side and say instead,
"I'm not constantly saying hateful derogatory things, I'm just battling against the Evil Forces Of Religion".

Ah, those mirror-images with co-dependancy problems..........