Freethought & Rationalism Archive

David Henson · 08-09-2010, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Message to David Henson: Please reply to posts #3 and #12 in a thread at http://freeratio.org/showthread.php?...polations+here
that is titled "Interpolations here, interpolations there, interpolations everywhere," and please reply to any other posts in that thread that interest you.

No. The thread is too old and it wouldn't serve any purpose to start a new one or bump the old one.

I read #3 and was pleasantly surprised. There is nothing I would have added to it other than to say to Spin; "Good post!"

#12 was opinion, like Marcion argueing that "'God' in the 'Old Testament' was a 'committed barbarian.'" There is nothing wrong with expressing one's opinion.

aa5874 · 08-09-2010, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Henson

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Please state the capabilities of the spirit beings you know.

And, name the last incident, as far as you know outside of Acts, where a spirit being killed someone for lying about money.

Why? Because if I couldn't it couldn't be true?

Why can't you answer the questions.

You imply that there are spirit beings and that they may have some capabilities to kill or cause death when believers lie about money.

Please state the capabilities of the spirit beings you know.

And, name the last incident, as far as you know outside of Acts, where a spirit being killed someone for lying about money.

Johnny Skeptic · 08-09-2010, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Message to David Henson: Please reply to posts #3 and #12 in a thread at http://freeratio.org/showthread.php?...polations+here
that is titled "Interpolations here, interpolations there, interpolations everywhere," and please reply to any other posts in that thread that interest you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Henson

No. The thread is too old and it wouldn't serve any purpose to start a new one or bump the old one.

It would if you believe that God inspired and preserved all of the originals free of errors except for copyist and scribal errors. If you don't, good, but please do not quote particular Scriptures unless you have reasonable proof that God inspired them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Henson

I read #3 and was pleasantly surprised. There is nothing I would have added to it other than to say to Spin; "Good post!"

Good, but I can assure you that you will disgree with lots of other things that spin has said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Henson

#12 was opinion, like Marcion argueing that "'God' in the 'Old Testament' was a 'committed barbarian.'"

You are welcome to reply to Stephan Huller's post if you wish. If you do, I will tell you in advance that Stephan Huller is one of the best prepared skeptics that I have ever come across at this forum. If you want to take on the best-prepared skeptics at this forum, Stephan Huller is one of them, and spin is too.

David Henson · 08-09-2010, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Henson

Why? Because if I couldn't it couldn't be true?

Why can't you answer the questions.

You imply that there are spirit beings and that they may have some capabilities to kill or cause death when believers lie about money.

Please state the capabilities of the spirit beings you know.

And, name the last incident, as far as you know outside of Acts, where a spirit being killed someone for lying about money.

Maybe I should clarify. Lets play a learning game, shall we? Oh, now don't worry! I can dance but I can answer the questions as well.

A. I don't know any spirit creatures. Never have.

Your turn. How many Ramapithecus' or Australopithecus' have you known?

I know, I know, bad examples, huh? But maybe you don't know that and I like to make fun too! So if you know better replace those with other examples. Same thing.

Think of me of like the Gregory House of theology. I like that!

David Henson · 08-09-2010, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

It would if you believe that God inspired and preserved all of the originals free of errors except for copyist and scribal errors. If you don't, good, but please do not quote particular Scriptures unless you have reasonable proof that God inspired them.

Not listening, again, John. You waste my time if you don't listen to me.

The word of God is perfect. Inspired. The translation isn't. It is the best we have, like emotions or science.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Good, but I can assure you that you will disagree with lots of other things that spin has said.

I'm sure of it. And I'm sure that if Spin were here to speak for him/her self he/she would tell us there was a good possibility that that would be mutual. It is part of the fun of being individuals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

You are welcome to reply to Stephan Huller's post if you wish. If you do, I will tell you in advance that Stephan Huller is one of the best prepared skeptics that I have ever come across at this forum. If you want to take on the best-prepared skeptics at this forum, Stephan Huller is one of them, and spin is too.

In the very brief example that you led me to I could see that Mr. Huller was most capable, and I must confess it may possibly work out that I have the exciting and challenging opportunity to have meaningful discourse with both him and Spin.

But not yet.

And after all, we know where to find each other.

aa5874 · 08-09-2010, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Henson

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Why can't you answer the questions.

You imply that there are spirit beings and that they may have some capabilities to kill or cause death when believers lie about money.

Please state the capabilities of the spirit beings you know.

And, name the last incident, as far as you know outside of Acts, where a spirit being killed someone for lying about money.

Maybe I should clarify. Lets play a learning game, shall we? Oh, now don't worry! I can dance but I can answer the questions as well.

A. I don't know any spirit creatures. Never have.

Your turn. How many Ramapithecus' or Australopithecus' have you known?

I know, I know, bad examples, huh? But maybe you don't know that and I like to make fun too! So if you know better replace those with other examples. Same thing.

Think of me of like the Gregory House of theology. I like that!

I don't post for jokes.

I am EXTREMELY SERIOUS.

You have implied that there are spirit beings and that they are capable of killing or causing the death of people when they lie about money but you have no knowledge of such things or deaths at all, as far as I know.

Julio · 08-09-2010, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Henson

God granted the apostles the ability to forgive or retain sin. (John 20:21-23) This gave them great insight as to what was really going on. They knew, from the holy spirit, what was in the hearts of people.

After Pentecost, 33 C.E. there was a fund set up for the needs of believers in Jerusalem. Contributions were made when the price of land or houses were sold and voluntarily donated. (Acts 4:34-37)

In the case of Ananias and Sapphira they were out to impress people with how much money they were going to give, so they sold the field and pretended to give all the money when they were only giving part of it, keeping it for themselves. Influenced by Satan they not only lied but witheld promised funds for the sake of impressing people.

That explanation is so off-target & ridiculous!
Where did you go to collect all that detail?
Ananias is not heard saying a word.
In a dignified text, inspired by the holy ghost, detail would be abundant. It never happens throughout the entire NT text.
The key note in the text is the term FEAR - great fear - mentioned twice!
It is inconceivable that a peaceful holy ghost would attack two people for defaulting on the offering.
Ananias is silent in the tale.
They buried the man quickly without contacting the wife, other family or authorities.
Nice Christian example of love?!!
You believe this to be a true story?!!...
Then allow me to believe the moon is made of Roquefort cheese!

Julio · 08-10-2010, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Henson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Of course not, nor can you say for certain that Hillary Clintion is a human being and not an alien, and that the God of deism does not exist, but if spirit beings exist, you cannot provide reasonable proof regarding where they came from.

I can say for sure that the God of deism does exist. Hilary Clinton not being an alien I'm not so sure of but that brings me to the next point, Johnny. Neither of us can say that aliens don't exist the same as neither one of us can say for sure that spirit creatures exist.

If the Bible said that aliens did exist you would deny them, correct? Otherwise you may be more inclined to speculate.

P.S. All there need be for a god to exist is to say there is a god, so the God of deism exists as a God of Deists. If I said that my PC moniter was my God my PC moniter would exist, not only in a literal sense but also simply as a god. The word god simply means anything or anyone who is given might or is venerated by another.

Idiotic example.
The problem is not the existence of some [anthropomorphic] god, but committing crime to highlight its holy character!
The Christian Faith has a dark past of much crime.
Those two dead innocent people were later used as vicious examples for some diabolical men to KILL many others, again to highlight their idea of a nice god!
I always ask Christians if there was not a BETTER PLAN to establish the Christian Church.
Great fear was the tool to collect money to help the poor in Jerusalem, Jehovah's capital of peace, one of the most turbulent & bloody cities of this planet!
The poor were never helped, though.
17 years later, Paul was still collecting offerings for the same victims!
A religion that commits crime to protect its dogmas is criminal.
Religion has always been criminal.

Julio · 08-10-2010, 12:15 AM

"The word of God is perfect. Inspired. The translation isn't. It is the best we have, like emotions or science."
This is cheap jargon!
There is no such "animal" as "The word of God"!!
There are no "Original Autographs" to check out that Invisible Ghost!
All of us know that the NT is basically a second century forgery.
It is, therefore, religious subterfuge and dishonesty to come among the intelligent folk with that nonsense of the "Word of God" being inspired only in the "Original"!
How would an Almighty God allow the Inspired Originals to be lost?
Christians believe crude superstitions.
The trouble is that they MERCHANDISE the concept and live parasitical lifestyles through that dishonest scheme.
Religion is a dishonest effort.

squiz · 08-10-2010, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCHindley

Not sure what you mean by "internal evidence elsewhere", but I'm kind of surprised that no one has mentioned the fact that the book of Acts specifically says that the Jerusalem faithful held "everything in common". The only other Jewish group(s) of this period we know lived communally were the Essenes, Therapeutae and the DSS sectarians. In fact, among the DSS sectarian scrolls, several different communal arrangements are to be found.

It seems that some of these communal groups required all the new members hold their property in the community's trust (it was turned back to them if they washed out of the group). As they progressed through the rites to become full members, they took ever more serious oaths before God to obey the tenets of the group. Once they did this, perhaps the property became the property of the community, as they would rather die than betray their oaths.

It has been suggested that Annas & Saphira had betrayed one of these oaths. Any sort of duplicity in these matters was grounds for expulsion.

This discussion should be heading in the direction of the relationship of the early Jesus movement with Essene, Therapeutae or DSS sectarian beliefs on the basis of similar organizational structure, not whether we approve of the implied ethics of this tale.

For those who spit on the ground when postmodernism is mentioned, this is a perfect example of the interpretation of ancient historical relics with 21st century minds, without even being aware of it. Just be glad the residents of the past do not judge you by their standards, or you would have an eye, tongue or hand lopped off for your blasphemy!

DCH (lunch break, boss ...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio

[Acts 5:1-11]
I have confronted Christians with this crime against two innocent members of Peter's Primitive Church. They tell me they were killed by the Holy Spirit.

It's not possible! And there is enough internal evidence elsewhere against such an accusation.

I need to resolve this problem satisfactorily. Can you please help?

Thanks.

Good post!

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08-10-2010, 12:15 AM	#39
Julio Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Johannesburg Posts: 5,187	"The word of God is perfect. Inspired. The translation isn't. It is the best we have, like emotions or science." This is cheap jargon! There is no such "animal" as "The word of God"!! There are no "Original Autographs" to check out that Invisible Ghost! All of us know that the NT is basically a second century forgery. It is, therefore, religious subterfuge and dishonesty to come among the intelligent folk with that nonsense of the "Word of God" being inspired only in the "Original"! How would an Almighty God allow the Inspired Originals to be lost? Christians believe crude superstitions. The trouble is that they MERCHANDISE the concept and live parasitical lifestyles through that dishonest scheme. Religion is a dishonest effort.

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