stephan huller

The Marcionites didn't believe that Jesus was the messiah

Doug Shaver

Why? If they had a story that, in their opinion, was good news, why would they not just call it "good news"?

stephan huller

Because Jews aren't Mormons. It's a meaningless term. It doesn't have anything to do with Moses and the god that established Israel during the Exodus. The thing that strikes you about ancient cultures is that they avoid novelty like the plague. It was the Church Fathers who accused Marcion of inventing new things. The reality was that the revelation of his 'new god' was entirely in keeping with established understandings in the 'old religion.' He just had the audacity to say 'it's happening now.'

Again the ancient Jews who were converting to the messianic tradition that was nascent Christianity weren't Mormons or evangelical Americans. They didn't believe in a Jesus who announced 'good news' (WTF does 'good news' have to do with God, redemption and the hereafter?). Oh I get it. 'The good news was that the Son of God had come into the world.' This is an Americanism. You don't even see the Roman Catholics thinking like this.

I once read an Easter sermon by Pope John Paul II and even he got the connection with the Jubilee. It's just Americans who have messed everything up with their incessant need to 'simplify' things and make them seem deceptively accessable to modern people.

Chili

No they don't agree with the American idea that Jesus died from 'my sins,' suggesting that now 'I' do not have to. They instead suggest that we must follow the footsteps of Jesus and as much as place ourselves on the cross and die to our own sins that we may be free as he was free to be raised and placed subservient to Mary who is crowned queen of heaven and earth and still reigns as the collective richess in heaven from where she drives the Holy Catholic Church.

We paid 30 silver pieces to have 'Peter' move to Rome with the end of Judaism for which Jesus was crucified the first time, and after that we have our own law to do the same to us.

Doug Shaver

I give up. You're seeing things that I can't see. Either I'm blind or you're hallucinating. The lurkers can decide for themselves which is the case.

Chili

That was good sofar but he should have just said that 'it was happening to him now and it can happen to you' and left it at that.

As soon as he starts preaching a red flag goes up that is called 'smoke of his torment' in Rev.14:10 to identify him as 'burning imposter' before the inquisitor (Matt.27:64c), who can likely hear him singing praises to Jesus already from a distance.

stephan huller

Doug

You know what else is like this? The claim that 'dia tessaron' means 'made through four gospels.' This can't be why Tatian called his text the 'dia tessaron.' It can't because it was a pre-existent term which means 'the fourth' note in a musical scale.

I find it difficult to believe that someone could have names something one thing when the term was absolutely established as something else.

Chili

Kind of like 'parousia' being a Koine Greek word meaning 'second coming' prior to the first coming.

avi

"absolutely established" ?

I don't understand why you imagine that Tatian would have been influenced by "middle English", a language not extant until nearly a millenium after Tatian had died.

Your comment, Stephan, makes absolutely no sense to me. Maybe I am simply stupid, and mis-understand your point entirely.

a. Do you have a reference to use of Dia Tessaron, by Greeks, two thousand years ago, to indicate that authors of that era employed the term exclusively to represent "the fourth note in a musical scale", but NOT "synthesis of four volumes into a single manuscript"?

b. How do you know what Tatian thought or believed?

c. Do you claim that Tatian himself did not call his synthesis "diatessaron"? If so, then, may I ask, what did he call his manuscript? How do we know this?

avi

Toto

Wikipedia is useful, but you can't read too much into a volunteer editor's choice of words.

Since dia and tessera are Greek words, and ancient music used the fourth interval, I would guess that the Greeks used the same word for a musical fourth (an interval, not a note on a scale.)

I don't see how this means that the same term could not have been used for a book compiled from 4 gospels. Perhaps Stephan will elaborate.