FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-20-2009, 03:54 PM   #21
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Greenville, TX
Posts: 362
Default

Its probably worth noting that the Jews expected the Messiah to be divine.

While Paul certainly considered Jesus special, it is unclear that he considered him equal to the father. It seems possible that Paul was the original adoptionist.

In any case, the Galatians passage doesn't obviously promote Jesus' God-hood.
Tinker Grey is offline  
Old 02-20-2009, 06:28 PM   #22
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 2,265
Thumbs up DON'T BELIEVE EVERTHING YOU BELIEVE.

Saul of Tarsus [Paul] never met Jesus. Paul was expelled from the Jews - including the original followers of two Jewish groups which had a form of reverence for Jesus [The Nazerites & Ebonites]. Christianity grew in Europe - where the Gospels was followed by previous belief systems, via different names and symbols. Europe followed the Gospels alledged writings of St. Paul without any proof, and without checking if what he said had any veracity - which is obligatory, relative to the claims made by the Gospels. Europe also followed via enforced decrees with a death sentence hovering of those who rejected the Gospels.

It remains an anomoly what is subscribed to Jesus - no Hebrew scrolls authored by Jesus, no writings whatsoever by Jesus or anyone in his contemporary times. Absolute disputation by all in the region, including two religions [Judaism; Islam].

All humans have an inherent belief in a Creator source - and this is also the easiest factor to exploit. Add persecution, ex-communication, the rake and spiritual blackmail of being saved by signing on the dotted line - and what do you get? A hijacked multitude. One who never demanded proof of an OPEN AND DIRECT Revelation before millions - as did the Hebrews with Moses - and who are said to have gotten that proof. At least, the Hebrews can be said to have strived for proof theoretically - despite what one believes of its actual occurence in historical and imperitve terms. Its in the Hebrew texts - but missing from the Gospel texts which was accepted via belief only!

TRUST, TRUST! BUT ALSO - CHECK, CHECK!
IamJoseph is offline  
Old 02-20-2009, 06:42 PM   #23
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 2,265
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinker Grey View Post
Its probably worth noting that the Jews expected the Messiah to be divine.
.
The reverse is the case. The Hebrew version of a Messiah is that he will be absolutely human, and any miracles/revelations occuring will relate to the peoples, not to the Messiah [e.g. resurrection of the dead; the peace among all nations; the peace with the animal kingdom, etc].

The precedence is seen with Moses - also a Messiah for his time and who at all times never claimed divinity; and in the writings of Isaiah.

The Messiah issue cannot ever impact on the first two commands from Sinai - namely the absolute ONEness of the Creator. Even spiritual beings [angels, mysterious forces, agents, saviors, etc] cannot be said to be divine - these are all created entities. That a Messah has not appeared is perhaps the most manifest factor for humanity today. It does not mean those who hold this beleif, or the reverse of it - are bad people or that they have or have not any genuine beliefs. Beware any who say so.

'THERE IS WISDOM AND RIGHTIOUSNESS IN ALL NATIONS'
IamJoseph is offline  
Old 02-20-2009, 06:51 PM   #24
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Greenville, TX
Posts: 362
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamJoseph View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinker Grey View Post
Its probably worth noting that the Jews expected the Messiah to be divine.
.
The reverse is the case. The Hebrew version of a Messiah is that he will be absolutely human, and any miracles/revelations occuring will relate to the peoples, not to the Messiah [e.g. resurrection of the dead; the peace among all nations; the peace with the animal kingdom, etc].

The precedence is seen with Moses - also a Messiah for his time and who at all times never claimed divinity; and in the writings of Isaiah.

The Messiah issue cannot ever impact on the first two commands from Sinai - namely the absolute ONEness of the Creator. Even spiritual beings [angels, mysterious forces, agents, saviors, etc] cannot be said to be divine - these are all created entities. That a Messah has not appeared is perhaps the most manifest factor for humanity today. It does not mean those who hold this beleif, or the reverse of it - are bad people or that they have or have not any genuine beliefs. Beware any who say so.

'THERE IS WISDOM AND RIGHTIOUSNESS IN ALL NATIONS'
You are absolutely right. I meant the opposite.

I hope the rest of my post makes some sense in light of this correction.
Tinker Grey is offline  
Old 02-20-2009, 07:56 PM   #25
Obsessed Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 61,538
Default

I think Netanyahu may be the messiah.
premjan is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:42 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.