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Old 09-05-2011, 03:04 AM   #11
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You can participate in any way you'd like obviously. Continue to expound whatever you've learned from Moll. The topic is about Gal 4:21 - 31 and whether or not it is an interpolation. I just went through the book. Moll does not discuss Marcion's interest in this passage. So if you have any other sources for Marcion's interest in this passage it would certainly be of interest to me as I am so interested in new approaches to learn about Marcion and Marcionite beliefs and traditions. I obviously can't stop you from continuing to post. I would just figure that as Moll is the extent of your knowledge about Marcion that you'd have nothing further to add to your previous post about what the (alleged) differences are between Marcion and Paul's interpretation of the material.

The OP is not about Marcion. Why do you have to disagree with me about the Marcionite interpretation of the material if you know nothing little of liabout Marcion? I found it aggravating but I am not position to stop you from continuing to aggravate me. Your interpretation of the material in your last post won't work. It's not the way the ancients approached the material. Tip #1 if you care about the truth. Research how individuals and schools of thought interpreted material. It is unlikely that a new approach to familiar passages will be the right answer. Of course this assumes that you care about the truth.
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Old 09-05-2011, 03:32 AM   #12
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Galatians 4:21-31 of Marcion per Tertullian Galatians as received
[21] No parallel [21] Tell me, you who desire to be under law, do you not hear the law?
[22]"For (it is written) that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bond maid, the other by a free woman; [22] For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave (Gen 16:15) and one by a free woman (Gen 21:2).
[23] but he who was of the bond maid was born after the flesh, but he of the free woman was by promise: [23] But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh [Ishmael born of Hagar], the son of the free woman through promise [Isaac born of Sarah].
[24a] which things are allegorized" [24a] Now this is an allegory:
[24b]"for these are the two covenants," [24b] these women are two covenants.
[24c] "the one from the Mount Sinai," [24c] One is from Mount Sinai,
[24d] "which gendereth to bondage" -- [24d] bearing children for slavery
[25] No parallel [25] *But Hagar* is *Sinai*, the mountain in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
[26a] "the other gendereth [free children?]" [26a] But the Jerusalem above is free,
[26b] "which [who?] is the mother of us all," 26 and she is *our* mother.
[27] No parallel [27] For it is written, "Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and shout, you who are not in travail; for the children of the desolate one are many more than the children of her that is married." (Isa 51:1)
[28] No parallel [28] *Now we, brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.*
[29] No parallel [29] But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now.
[30] No parallel [30] But what does the scripture say? "Cast out the slave and her son; for the son of the slave shall not inherit with the son of the free woman." (Gen 21:10)
[31] "So then, brethren, we are not children of the bond woman, but of the free." [31] So, brethren, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

So Marcion's version is something like:

[22]"For (it is written) that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bond maid, the other by a free woman; [23] but he who was of the bond maid was born after the flesh, but he of the free woman was by promise:
[24a] "which things are allegorized"
[24b] "for these are the two covenants,"
[24c] "the one from the Mount Sinai,"
[24d] "which gendereth to bondage" --
[26a] "the other gendereth [free children?]"
[26b] "which [who?] is the mother of us all,"
[31] "So then, brethren, we are not children of the bond woman, but of the free."

The best we can say is that Marcion sought to explain his beliefs by choosing a story from the OT. Marcion was supposed to have commissioned several serious studies of the OT, and his Antithesis drew on it as well. However, he does not appear to be using OT passages as proof texts.

But just what the heck is that "covenant from Sinai that genders to bondage" and another "(covenant) that genders what is the mother of us all" supposed to mean? No syrupy sweet "excuse" explanations, or gobbltygook about Paul's rhetorical genius, please. One can read virtually anything into this short text!
Two covenants:

1) the covenant of bondage - our flesh, our physical bodies that are not free from death.
2) the covenant of freedom - our spirit, our intellect, the mother of us all, the 'mother' that gives us intellectual freedom, a freedom that enables us, as human beings, to flourish - even though, physically, we are still in bondage to the eventual death of our physical bodies.

Quote:

I think, though, that it does fit with the known descriptions of Marcion's theology well enough: The Demiurge creates the visible world, and demands that the men he created in it worship him alone on punishment of death, typified by the commandment, handed down on Sinai, that "thou shalt not have any gods before me." The solution to this untenable situation is the rescue mission by the Good God's christ. Sinai is your τύπος goodly sir.

The (proto-)orthodox version is much more complicated. It has a reversal of meaning from (flesh = slavery/promise = freedom) to (present day Jerusalem = slavery/the Jerusalem above, our mother = freedom), in other words hijacking the meaning itself. If we take Paul to have flourished in the mid 1st century CE, it is clear that the "present Jerusalem ... is in slavery with her children" likely refers to the fate of the inhabitants of Jerusalem captured by Titus in 70 CE. It relates to a later addition, and this is why I feel confident to segregate the text into two strata, two strata that are at odds with one another.

Strata One:
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under law, do you not hear the law?

22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave (Gen 16:15) and one by a free woman (Gen 21:2).

23 But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh [Ishmael born of Hagar], the son of the free woman through promise [Isaac born of Sarah].

28 *Now we, brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.*
Strata Two:
[24 Now this is an allegory: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25 *But Hagar* is *Sinai*, the mountain in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is *our* mother.
27 For it is written, "Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and shout, you who are not in travail; for the children of the desolate one are many more than the children of her that is married." (Isa 51:1)
29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now. 30 But what does the scripture say? "Cast out the slave and her son; for the son of the slave shall not inherit with the son of the free woman." (Gen 21:10)

31 So, brethren, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.]
Marcion's version spans both these strata (vs 22-23 strata one, and vss 24,26,31 strata two). Either Marcion selected passages from the orthodox version without reference to this plurality of independent messages (i.e., cut down the orthodox version) or the orthodox created from Marcion's sparse text a narrative that contains the plural message at odds with one another (i.e., built up Marcion's version).

DCH
Or, there was an early and a late 'Paul'. Leading to the situation where the writings of the later 'Paul' have been fused with those of an earlier 'Paul'.

Which 'Paul' is Marcion interested in - certainty not the later 'Paul' - and not because of any ideas that later 'Paul' was years after Marcion. Theologically, Marcion and later 'Paul' are miles apart re the Marcion idea of a good and an evil god. Early 'Paul' - even here Marcion is out of line - no early 'Paul' is going to be going where no Jewish theology would go, then or now - to the notion of an evil OT god. Yes, that OT god went about advocating the slaying of the enemies of his people - ah, but he protected his own. Even in dire straits - the people of the OT god would never label their god as evil - for heavens sake - even when he punished them by letting them go into slavery in Egypt and Babylon - he does not forget them but sends their deliverer. Only a non Jewish person could be so limited in understanding as to fail to see that the OT god was not an evil god. Evil was, and is, within us all - not in some up there sky god. The OT god is a god of a specific time and place. And yes, that god concept was about to be updated - by removing that god theory from having any connection to a historical time and people, to a purely intellectual/heavenly, new Jerusalem context. A context in which there would be neither Jew nor Greek. Marcion missed the boat - or should that be flight.....

Two 'covenants' that are still in force today. Flesh and spirit, Law and freedom. Two elements of our human nature. No choice between them - both Christians and Jews need to learn to live with that reality. They both have something to offer in understanding out human nature - as well as understanding the 'conflict' between the OT and the NT. The Law, the 'flesh', has not been superseded by the spirit - intellectual freedom can only exist alongside, in partnership with, our fleshly bodies. The NT changed focus - it does not deny the 'flesh' - (that gospel JC is very useful.......)

OK - now I'll get off my soapbox......

I try not to confuse "Just" with "Evil".

A Perfectly Just God, the Demiurge and a Perfectly Merciful God, the Father. A perfectly Just and Merciful God is, of course, a logical contradiction.
Yes, even back then, the move away from the evil god being the OT god, towards this god becoming the just god, seems to have caused some confusion....
Quote:

Sebastian Moll: The Arch-Heretic Marcion.

Page 52.

Hippolytus, Refutatio Omnium Haeresium (ca.225)

As far as Marcoin is concerned, Hippolytus is a difficult source since his two reports on the arch-heretic are contradictory to a certain extent. According to the first report Marcoin distinguished between a good and an evil God: “You say the Demiurge of the world is evil....you say the God who destroyed the works of the Demiurge is good:. The second report, on the other hand, states that Marcion believed in three principles: good, just and matter. Despite this obvious contradiction Hippolytus might in fact offer us the solution to our problem, for he calls the system of good and evil the first and purest form of Marcion’s heresy......and continues to explain that it was Prepon, a disciple of Marcion, who introduced a third principle over the latter one, in which Hippolytus attributes the idea of three principles ready to Marcion. He is obviously no longer thinking of Marcion himself here, but of his followers he is in contact with. An even more interesting remark in this context is Hippolytus’ observation that some Marcioniites call the just one evil, others call him only just. Apparently, the varying designation of this God by the Marcionites is not only confusing to us today, but was so already in the early third century. Once more it is noteworthy that Hippolytus goes on to explain that the Marcionites believe that the just one has created the universe out of already existing matter.
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Old 09-05-2011, 07:29 AM   #13
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You know, maryhelena, I would venture so far as to say that, if one is looking for the impetus for Christian origins, this issue may have been a primary driver once someone came up with the concept of an omnibenevolent deity.

Perhaps a Platonist reading the LXX?
Yes, the reality of evil in the world - that we humans can do god awful things to ourselves and others - is an ongoing issue. But the Marcoin approach - an evil sky god - is beyond any sort of rationality.

Indeed, ideas involving dualism have much merit - human nature demonstrates that we are not just flesh. Our mind has it's own agenda; while having to take cognizance of our fleshly limitations - it's also free to soar to the heights of intellectual freedom, free from the cares of the flesh.
Like I said, I do not think the word Evil is appropriate, as I do not think that the demiurge was viewed as evil, per se, but as Just, (the lawgiver...).
OK - but the quote from the book by Sebastian Moll - check out the quote above from page 52 - indicates that evil was a feature of the Demiurge in early Marcion theory.

Quote:
According to the first report Marcoin distinguished between a good and an evil God: “You say the Demiurge of the world is evil....you say the God who destroyed the works of the Demiurge is good:
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Old 09-05-2011, 07:32 AM   #14
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Like I said, I do not think the word Evil is appropriate, as I do not think that the demiurge was viewed as evil, per se, but as Just, (the lawgiver...).
OK - but the quote from the book by Sebastian Moll - check out the quote above from page 52 - indicates that evil was a feature of the Demiurge in early Marcion theory.

Quote:
According to the first report Marcoin distinguished between a good and an evil God: “You say the Demiurge of the world is evil....you say the God who destroyed the works of the Demiurge is good:
I think that that is a paraphrase from one of Marcion's detractors. However, I am not convinced that the characterization of Marcion's theology is actually correct.
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Old 09-05-2011, 08:12 AM   #15
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Like I said, I do not think the word Evil is appropriate, as I do not think that the demiurge was viewed as evil, per se, but as Just, (the lawgiver...).
OK - but the quote from the book by Sebastian Moll - check out the quote above from page 52 - indicates that evil was a feature of the Demiurge in early Marcion theory.

Quote:
According to the first report Marcoin distinguished between a good and an evil God: “You say the Demiurge of the world is evil....you say the God who destroyed the works of the Demiurge is good:
I think that that is a paraphrase from one of Marcion's detractors. However, I am not convinced that the characterization of Marcion's theology is actually correct.
You might be interested in this Bible and Interpretation article by Sebastian Moll: A New Portrait of Marcion

http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/mol358031.shtml
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Old 09-05-2011, 08:22 AM   #16
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I think that that is a paraphrase from one of Marcion's detractors. However, I am not convinced that the characterization of Marcion's theology is actually correct.
You might be interested in this Bible and Interpretation article by Sebastian Moll: A New Portrait of Marcion

http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/mol358031.shtml
Thanks. I'll give it a read.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:22 AM   #17
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I think that that is a paraphrase from one of Marcion's detractors. However, I am not convinced that the characterization of Marcion's theology is actually correct.
You might be interested in this Bible and Interpretation article by Sebastian Moll: A New Portrait of Marcion

http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/mol358031.shtml
Thanks. I'll give it a read.
I'll do the same. I was not sure what to make of Moll, so I started compiling the source material (so far, Epiphanius, and a summary of Esnik/Esnig), but not as yet Justin, Irenaeus or Tertullian. Come to think of it I also have compiled from the secondary literature some info on Platonism and how it was adapted by Valentinianism, and I think these materials all impact our understanding of Marcion's theology in context.

DCH
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Old 09-05-2011, 11:36 AM   #18
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Let's get back to the original OP. Moll says this in the paper cited by Mary Helena:

Quote:
While his negative view of the world and, accordingly, his hatred for the God of the Old Testament form the center of Marcion’s theology
So how can we construct his interest in the typology of Sarah as representing something allegedly 'opposed' to and separate from the covenant at Sinai? It's absurd. Moll has just taken his sources uncritically. There is no 'hatred' of the OT in Marcion. This was developed by the early Church Fathers (late second/third century) to obscure the fact that his message was of the messianic completion of the Law rather than any 'hatred.' Marcion didn't just 'erase' OT passages - many 'positive' or at least 'accepting' of the connection with Christ were 'retained.' The argument just doesn't work. The reality must have been that the Catholics just continued to pile on the scriptural references and then accused the Marcionites/Marcion of erasing their handiwork.
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Old 09-05-2011, 12:15 PM   #19
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Another difficulty for Moll is the fact that the Marcionite interpretation is basically very similar to that of many Catholic writers. Tertullian (Adversus Marcionem 5.4.8) also interprets it as having to do with Judaism and Christianity. Marcion had already pointed to the synagogue and the church (on this see JL Martyn, “The Covenants of Hagar and Sarah,” in Faith and History). For the subsequent centuries Schreckenberg, Umfeld, 306, 332, 496, names as representatives of such an interpretation Ambrose of Milan, Maximus of Turin, and Abogard of Lyon (cf. n. 21); from the field of Greek exegesis one could also name John Chrysostom (PG 61:662-63) cf. Augustine, De Trinitate 15.9.15.

It is very hard for me to believe that Marcion could have shared so much in common with all these Patristic writers with the basic interpretation of the passage and yet ultimately 'hated' the Old Testament. It doesn't work like this. The difference between the Catholics and the Marcionites was emphasis not basic orientation. Marcion said the Old Testament was no longer in force with the coming of Christ for those who underwent the Christian mystery/mysteries. One could have accused Marcion of being a libertine (perhaps some did). Yet most of the criticism seems to have developed around his 'hostility' to the Law in the early sources (i.e. that he was motivated by hatred to preserve the original tradition associated with the New Testament).
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Old 09-05-2011, 12:42 PM   #20
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Yes, even back then, the move away from the evil god being the OT god, towards this god becoming the just god, seems to have caused some confusion....
You know, maryhelena, I would venture so far as to say that, if one is looking for the impetus for Christian origins, this issue may have been a primary driver once someone came up with the concept of an omnibenevolent deity.

Perhaps a Platonist reading the LXX?
Here is a summary of Moll's concept of the teaching of Marcion:
In the third chapter Moll turns to the question of Marcion’s dualism, rejecting Harnack’s view that the arch-heretic distinguished between a just and a good God (47–76). It is argued that Marcion’s original doctrine distinguished between a good and an evil God, which was deformed by later Marcionites into a tripartite system of good God, just God, and evil God (or evil matter).

Marcion identified the evil God with the God of the Old Testament, seen as the imperfect and flawed Creator, the God of the Jews, the Lawgiver, and the Judge. The good God is revealed by Jesus Christ and preached by Paul.

Moll suggests that Marcion conceived of the good God as seeking to destroy the evil Creator God, characterizing Christ’s stance as Trotz (spiteful, almost childish defiance) against the Creator and his law.

Thus it is the evil God who is first in Marcion’s system and the good God who is second. “The second God could not exist without the first” (67). “The good God is a pure anti-God, who merely reacts to the malice of his counterpart” (76).

RBL review of The Arch heretic Marcion, by Mark DelCogliano, 8/6/11
I mention this, not just because it was brought up by maryhelena, but because it is out of character for the world view of that age, as found in contemporary Platonic and Valentinian literature.

It was all about 1st principles that have made the world we know possible.

Classically, Plato had postulated:
First Principals.
• The One (Monad): active, imposing “limit” (peras) on the formlessness (apieron) of the opposite principal. The Good. Father. First Principle.
• The Indefinite Dyad: a duality, being infinitely extensible and divisible, being simultaneously infinitely large and infinitely small.

Secondary Principals.
Ideas (from Greek) or Forms (from Latin). These are eternal, changeless, perfect. These represent order & reason. Ideas are universal abstract representations of the many types of things, and properties we feel and see around us, that can only be perceived by reason (Greek: λογική). Ideas serve as "a pattern intelligible and always the same."
• The first and most important Idea is The Good [not the same as the One, also called "The Good"]: it is the highest Form, which all other Forms seek to emulate.

The Receptacle, the "nurse of all becoming": has no properties, being "an invisible and formless being which receives all things and in some mysterious way partakes of the intelligible and is most incomprehensible," which is unformed matter existing in space, that which is always becoming and never is, chaos. It is indestructible and eternal, like the Ideas.

The Demiurge (Craftsman) fashioned the cosmos (Universe) perceptible by the senses, from the Receptacle, using the Ideas as patterns: The cosmos "was only an imitation of the pattern, generated and visible." It is the corporeal, the temporal and becoming, which is apprehended by opinion or sense perception. The cosmos is a copy of the eternal and unchanging [Ideas], and is a living creature.
World Soul: The soul of the universe, created when the Demiurge created the cosmos from The receptacle using the Ideas as templates. Described this process as the putting of a soul into the body of the universe, thereby putting intelligence (regularity and order) into it.
Individual Souls: Includes souls of Gods, Daimons, and man, each inhabiting their portion of the cosmos (Gods in heavens, Daimons in the Air, and Animals/Man on earth). Immortal, subject to reincarnation as higher/lower souls.
In Platonism of that era, the highest first principals were the One (Monad), which is the essence of things, and the Dyad, which allows things to come to be. These are ever existent, unknowable and exist in a different plane of existence.

Two other secondary principals that have always existed are the Receptacle, aka Hyle through Aristotelian influence, being preexistent unformed matter existing in space, and the Demiurge (a Craftsman) who fashioned the cosmos (the physical universe) we can see using the unformed matter of the Receptacle, using universal Ideas or thoughts existing in the mind of the One as patterns. There was, however, some hesitation about accepting Plato's Demiurge, and efforts were made to find a different manner for it to happen.

The Valentinians, on the other hand, took a different view:
It is generally asserted that what chiefly distinguishes the Gnostic attitude from main-line Platonism is a conviction that this world is not only imperfect (a view with which all sides would concur), but the creation of an evil entity, and that we [souls] are total aliens in it. Plainly a radically world-negating philosophy must arise from this basic position. Within the Gnostic thought-world, however, Valentinus represents a relatively non-dualistic position. For him, the creation of the world results, not from the eternal confrontation between two archetypal powers, as it does for a thinker like Mani, but rather from a Fall occurring within the framework of a previously perfect system. ...

As for the basic framework of the system, it is, if anything, reminiscent of Pythagorean metaphysics. We have initially a monadic and a dyadic figure, the latter being subordinated to the former ([although] in one variant of Valentinianism ... the original Aeon is alone in his glory, and produces Nous and Aletheia without the aid of Ennoia [page 386] (Hippolytus, Ref. VI 29, 5ff.)). The name Ennoia, denoting as it does unuttered thought, is reminiscent of such figures as Philo's Sophia (in her capacity as mother of the Logos), or the Isis of the preface to Plutarch's Isis and Osiris.

The monadic principle, the perfect, archetypal Aeon, is termed proarchê (fore-beginning), propatôr (fore-father) and bythos (abyss).

The female principle is called, besides Ennoia, also charis (grace) and sigê (silence). The [arch-typical] Aeon puts forth a seed into Ennoia, and she produces Intellect (nous) and, as his consort, Truth (alêtheia). Nous receives the titles of 'only-begotten', 'Father' and 'First Principle of all things'.

We may note here a deliberate piece of oneupmanship on the part of the Gnostics.

Their secondary, derived principle, Nous, is given the titles of the Platonic supreme god, 'Father' and 'first principle', while their own supreme principle is 'Forefather' and 'pre-first principle'.

This is a motif apparent also in Chaldaean theology, and, as we saw in the last chapter, something of it rubbed off onto Numenius. At any rate, Nous is the only product of the Forefather that is granted knowledge of him, and in virtue of that knowledge he produces a further pair of principles, Logos and Zoe ('life'). In Logos we have another philosophic concept, familiar to us in particular (in this book) from Philo, but not much is made of it in the Valentinian system, except as a source of further aeons. ...

Passing over for our present purpose the further elaborations which make up the Pleroma, we come to the lastborn of the Aeons, the female principle Sophia. About her Fall something has been said just previously. It is a most interesting concept, representing as it does the striving of the religio-philosophic mind to account, not only for the imperfection of the physical world, but for its creation at all in any form.

Plato himself was sufficiently dualistic to postulate a cause of imperfection, albeit a rather passive, negative one, external to God, on which God works as best he can. There is no question of imperfection or of a fall within the divine realm.

Only in the case of the individual soul is there question (in the myth of the Phaedrus) of some fall from a previous perfection. But the postulation of the Indefinite Dyad introduces a cause of disequilibrium at the highest level, and it is the workings of this principle that are used to explain not only all that is imperfect, but all multiplicity and even existence.

Speusippus, as we have seen, refused to characterize the Dyad as evil, which is a more logical attitude to take. For Valentinus, similarly, there is nothing evil about Ennoia. She is simply the condition for the generation of everything [page 387] after the Forefather. Evil only arises at a much lower level, with the most junior of the aeons [Sophia].

Sophia sins through her desire to know her origin, to comprehend the nature of the Forefather. She plunges recklessly into the abyss where he dwells, causing a disequilibrium in the Pleroma, and is only brought up short by the intervention of an entity previously not heard of, termed Horos ('boundary'—a variant, perhaps, of the Pythagorean peras, 'limit'). This entity seems to be an aspect of the Forefather generated by the imbalance within the Pleroma. It may be seen, in more philosophic terms, as the Logos in its regulating aspect, or, in Philo's system, the 'regal power' of God [which is Philo's sole principal].

Sophia is restored to her place, but the result of her disruption remains, objectified as a 'formless entity', and causes pain to the other aeons. They cause a further aeon, Christos, to be produced, in order to deal with this formlessness. Christos, like Horos, is a logos-figure. He separates off the formless entity, and expels it from the Pleroma. It becomes the 'lower' Sophia, or Achamoth, a projection of the higher Sophia outside the intelligible world. It corresponds to the irrational World Soul of Middle Platonic metaphysics, an irrational entity which yet yearns for what is above it, and grieves because of its separation from the higher world. Its emotions, grief, fear, bewilderment and ignorance, all become hypostatized, and give rise to the four elements of the material world, while a fifth quality of Achamoth, its 'turning back' (epistrophê) to what is above it, produces Soul.

Out of this soul-substance, Achamoth produces a son, the Demiurge, and it is at this stage that we find in Valentinianism an explicit parody of the Timaeus, and through it of Platonic metaphysics in general, as well as an attack on Jehovah as portrayed in the Old Testament.

The Valentinian Demiurge is not so much evil (as he is in certain other Gnostic traditions), as simply ignorant. He does not know the true nature of things; he cannot see the Forms, yet he thinks that he is the unique and supreme God. He organizes the material universe into seven heavens, over which, in the eighth sphere, he presides.

This notion that our world is in the power of an evil, or at best ignorant, being is one that is characteristically Gnostic, but of which we have seen dim suggestions both in Philo and in Plutarch's teacher Ammonius, and even perhaps in Xenocrates' connexion of the sublunar realm with 'Titanic' deities and a 'lower Zeus'. It is plainly one explanation of the world's imperfection with which men like to torment themselves, and is after all only a personified development of Plato's [page 388] notion of Necessity (Ananke) as irreducibly present in the material world.

The Demiurge tries to imitate the structure of the higher world in his creation of the material world, but fails systematically through ignorance. The parody of the Timaeus attains its sharpest manifestation, perhaps, in the description of the Demiurge's attempt to imitate Eternity (Aiôn) with the creation of Time (cf. Tim. 37Cff.): ...

[John Dillon, The Middle Platonists (1977), pgs 385-388]
Now it is clear to me that Dillon is right that Valentinianism was a modification of Platonic concepts.

Marcion, on the other hand, is not a Gnostic with a system resembling the Valentinian system, but instead adopted (from Cerdo?) a simplified Platonic system in which

The "Good" God is one principal,

Hyle (Unformed matter, corresponding to the Recepticle of Plato) is another,

and finally a Demiurge that created the cosmos from Hyle and ruled it as an autocrat, ignorantly thinking he was the supreme God, and punishing those who fell short of his strict justice, and who manifested himself as the God of the Hebrews.

It is due to the Demiurge's imprisonment of the souls of men in Hades upon death, that rouses the Good God from his repose in the highest immaterial heaven to send his son, Christ, to rectify the situation.

No Sophia throwing out unformed matter into a Pleroma to be expelled into space like an abortion in his system, but rather Hyle is preexistant. His concept of the Demiurge does have some affinity to the Valentinian Demiurge, as does his Good God with Plato's Monad.

However, the fact that the Good God generates a Son to effect the rectification of the predicament that the Demiurge imposed on human souls, is somewhat reminiscent of the Aeons of the Pleroma creating the aeon Christ to respond to challenge occasioned by fragments of the cosmic soul being entrapped in the physical world ruled by the Demiurge.

Head spinning yet? :constern01:

DCH
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