Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Didymus · 07-10-2006, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malachi151

To get back on topic, what I'm lookin for is not aguments about the historicity of Jesus, but information on the history of Biblical criticism and the history of investigation into the claims made by Christiasn, not the criticism itself, but the history of it.

Catholics and Protestants alike accept the Nicene Creed and the Apostles Creed, both of which are unequivocal on the question of Jesus having lived on earth as a fully human and fully divine man. Here are excerpts from both.

Nicene Creed:

Who because of us men and because of our salvation came down from the heaven and became incarnate by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, becoming man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; suffered and was buried.

Apostles Creed:

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.

All variants that I've found include mention of the crucifixion having taken place under Pontius Pilate.

Didymus

Solo · 07-11-2006, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Therefore do catholics really believe in an HJ?

If Toto is correct they believe in both an HJ and an MJ!

But that is the problem - if catholics must not amputate the MJ bit they also DO NOT NEED AN HJ!

These distinctions would be meaningless to traditional Catholicism. The Church has been fighting what it calls "theological modernism" for over a century. see.: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10415a.htm

Quote:

We make a selection of the following [heretical, insert mine] propositions from the Encyclical for discussion:

the Christ of faith is not the Christ of history. Faith portrays Christ according to the religious needs of the faithful; history represents Him as He really was, that is, in so far as His appearance on earth was a concrete phenomenon. In this way it is easy to understand how a believer may, without contradiction, attribute certain things to Christ, and at the same time deny them in the quality of historian. In the "Hibbert Journal" for Jan., 1909, the Rev. Mr. Robert wished to call the Christ of history "Jesus" and reserve "Christ" for the same person as idealized by faith;

On the other hand, there are, as there always been, theological dissenters. Garry Wills ("Why I am a Catholic") popularizes left liberal Catholic views.

JS

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