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Old 09-21-2005, 10:14 AM   #51
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How does divine fiat get to be "most basic"? The notion itself is quite sophisticated: the god doesn't need to be physically involved in the creation; it is sufficient that he enunciate his conception and it comes into existence. The second creation has god having to roll his sleaves up and molding and making.

Well, then "sophisticated" is probably not the right word. Sophisticated implies complexity. Nothing is less complex than a God that creates a World single handed. Of course, it can be interesting from an anthropological point of view but, speaking about cosmogonies, there are many far more sophisticated and poetic and probably many that are not.
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Old 09-21-2005, 11:40 AM   #52
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Well, then "sophisticated" is probably not the right word. Sophisticated implies complexity. Nothing is less complex than a God that creates a World single handed. Of course, it can be interesting from an anthropological point of view but, speaking about cosmogonies, there are many far more sophisticated and poetic and probably many that are not.
It is sophisticated in a literary and a theological sense, which we were dealing with. Divine fiat is one example of that sophistication. The concept of god is a lot more sophisticated thanthat of Gen 2. But then, I gave a number of indications of sophistication, so why single out one and ignore the rest, just to attempt to reduce the one to not in your opinion being sophisticated, when you don't seem to consider the cultural context. What your comment appears to be is a retrojection of modern requirements for sophistication onto a very different world.


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Old 09-25-2005, 05:51 AM   #53
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Of course we are considering the modern perspective, because the Bible didn't reach us as pure literature. Check the head of the topic.
But you are not giving any ground of comparison, anyway. Sophisticated compared to what?
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Old 09-25-2005, 12:17 PM   #54
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Of course we are considering the modern perspective, because the Bible didn't reach us as pure literature. Check the head of the topic.
You can exclude me from your "we". If you were only analysing the bible on its impact, you wouldn't be interested in making comments about its content. QAnd if you were only interested in the bible for its impact, it becomes solely a prop for those who wish to foist their opinions on you, so the bible has little to do with the process. It could just as easily have been the phone book. They hardly open it anyway.

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But you are not giving any ground of comparison, anyway. Sophisticated compared to what?
Compare it with the Enuma Elish for example, if you need an ancient comparison for theological complexity.


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Old 09-25-2005, 01:36 PM   #55
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Compare it with the Enuma Elish for example, if you need an ancient comparison for theological complexity.


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Honestly, I like Enuma Elish better. I find divine warfare more entertaining than divine fiat- but that's just me.
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Old 09-25-2005, 01:50 PM   #56
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Honestly, I like Enuma Elish better. I find divine warfare more entertaining than divine fiat- but that's just me.
I can appreciate that. It's certainly more entertaining on a superficial level. I enjoy Spielberg films when he's making light entertainment, but when he tries to do serious things it suddenly becomes crap. Color Purple. Schindler's List. Private Ryan. Pewk.


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