judge

OK...thanks for your attention and your time.
I think i will leave this topic for a while at least.

If I am to get more objectivity then I think I need to do this and learn a little more.

As I say thanks again for your thoughts, I know I act like I don't appreciate them at times but I do.

Thanks to chris also for ytour thoughts.

spin

Before you duck out, judge, would you be so kind as to answer the last question in my previous post:


spin

judge

Your question is not a good one. Your example is entirely fictional and this is an obvious shortcoming.

Much better, much better, is to compare with an actual real life example.
Let's look at what actully happens in time and space.

We have an exact parallel in the LXX. We know the LXX is a translation.

spin

What's "entirely fictional" about it pray tell???


spin

Ted Hoffman

He is scared to death of responding to the question. Let me give him another example. Judge, could you please tell us what language the following statement is [directly] translated from?
"You are looking for my mouth"

judge

The incident never took place.

Here are your own words.

You see I gave a real life example from the LXX of what it actually looks like, in real life, when someone translates a semitic text into greek.

This event actually happened and we have both the texts.

Then I compared this with the greek and Aramaic of Mark , and we find the exact same phenomenon.

You then invent an incident which never took place and hypothesise what someone you have never met and know little about would have done.

The two are miles apart. :huh:

judge

Oooohh I 'm pertrified

Ted Why not copme up with a real life example?
Don't you have anything from real life?
Don't you have an real life example from ancient texts?

judge

One more time. Here is the example from the real world.

We know from this real life example what happens when a translation is made from a semitic language to greek.

Semitic grammar is characterised by the repetition of a preposition before every noun of a series which it governs. Such a construction is and is intolerable in literary Greek and likewise in English.

Joshua 11:21

ויב×? יהושע בעת ×”×”×™×? ויכרת ×?ת־העתקי×?
מן ־ההר מן ־חברון מן ־דבר מן ־עתב ומכל הר יהודה מן כל הר ישר×?ל
×¢×?־עריה×? החרימ×? יהושע

και ηλθεν ιησους εν τω καιÏ?ω εκεινω και εξωλεθÏ?ευσεν τους ενακιμ εκ της οÏ?εινης εκ χεβÏ?ων καιεκ δαβιÏ? και εξ αναβωθ και εκ παντος γενους ισÏ?αηλ και εκ παντος οÏ?ους ιουδα συν ταις πολεσιν αυτων και εξωλεθÏ?ευσεν αυτους ιησους


Then Joshua came at that time and cut off the Anakim from the hill country, from Hebron, from Debir, from Anab and from all the hill country of Judah and from all the hill country of Israel. Joshua utterly destroyed them with their cities.

Now, we have another real life example comparing the New Testament Peshitta with the greek NT:

Mark 3:7-8

0my twl hl Lz0 Yhwdymlt M9 (w4yw
0wh hpqn fylg Nm 00ygs 0m9w
Mwd0 Nmw Ml4rw0 Nmw dwhy Nmw
Jdyc Nmw rwc Nmw Nndrwyd 0rb9 Nmw
htwl wt0 db9d Lk wwh w9m4d 00ygs 04nk

και ο ιησους μετα των μαθητων αυτου ανεχωÏ?ησεν Ï€Ï?ος την θαλασσαν και πολυ πληθος απο της γαλιλαιας {ηκολουθησεν} και απο της ιουδαιας
και απο ιεÏ?οσολυμων και απο της ιδουμαιας και πεÏ?αν του ιοÏ?δανου και πεÏ?ι Ï„Ï…Ï?ον και σιδωνα πληθος πολυ ακουοντες οσα εποιει ηλθον Ï€Ï?ος αυτον

Jesus withdrew to the sea with His disciples; and a great multitude from Galilee followed; and also from Judea, and from Jerusalem, and from Idumea, and from beyond the Jordan, and from Tyre, and from Sidon, a great number of people heard of all that He was doing and came to Him.

In contrast to this you have presented a fictional example. An example that never happened.

Vorkosigan

Judge, every day I get sentences like:

"I on wednesday went out for pizza."
"It is the best choice to choose that you can go to Sogo Department Store."
"There has a beautiful view."

None of these sentences are translations of pre-existing texts. All of them, however, reflect Chinese grammatical influences on English. Can you see why your 'evidence' is not evidence of anything except a (possible) semitic influence on the thinking of Mark? What if the writer of Mark is in fact alluding to the passage in Joshua you are quoting by reproducing its features in Greek? You seem not to be able to consider the range of alternatives that occurs naturally to others.

Yes, well, Mark 3:7-8 is fictional as well.

Vorkosigan

judge

Well we can all think of a variety of strange ways the text could have come about but using Ochams Razor, looking for the simplest solution we would arrive at my suggestion.
That is the these things arose in the very same way they arose in the LXX, by translation