Julian

Yes, which is why I said 'relatively clear' since those quotes throw some confusion in the mix. Orthodoxy was never able to adequately explain their concept of god. Interestingly enough, the Gnostics did a much better job of defining god and Jesus.

Julian

Clivedurdle

Was sacrificing to Caesar allowed for xians or not? Eating food sacrificed to idols surely entailed going to the temple didn't it? If it was OK to break sabbath laws, and rules about circumcision, what is the stretch about an oath of allegiance with religious links?

Dharma

I'm not sure if Christians can discern from their scriptures if it is allowed or not allowed. The New Testament is too self contradictory since Jesus is a man who claims people should worship him as the "only way".

The Old Testament is quite clear for the Jews, THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED.

Although the "king of Israel" is called "ben elohim" he is not to be worshipped.

So Christians are "blaspheming" Judaism as well by worshipping the "king of Israel" even if he was rejected by Jews.

gee

Darhma;

Here's what I'm trying to say:

- If you're going to be mad/irriated/righteously indignant (its hard to tell on a forum) about Christians being hypocrites; I think you should address Pliny (was he even the correct king?) killing people for their beliefs. Be mad/irriated/righteously indignant about that.

Not sure the history here that you're referring to, but I have never said that Christians always do the morally correct things.......

gee

gee

Dharma;

Let's start here if you wish. If you say this is what Jesus says. What is contradictory about this statement?


Clivedurdle;

Jesus was talking to Jews in a context they understood when confronted by this issue. He raised the bar of the law. "It is what comes out of the mouth that makes a man unclean instead of what goes into the mouth." Paraphrasing: "If you're a jerk, it doesn't matter if you "eat the right things. You're a jerk."

Paul, said "hey, if it bothers you that much - don't eat the sacrificed foods. If your buddy is offended, don't eat it in front of him to keep the peace. Don't fight over stuff like that. The important thing is; don't be a jerk. Not eating this or that.....

Remember "Christian" by definition means "follower of Christ (Jesus)." He himself fulfilled the law and took it to its logical conclusion as mentioned in the Old Testament (in Malachi among other places if you're interested). That folks "were following the law" but forgetting about the spirit of it (i.e. "not being a jerk" - in high theological terms).

gee

Dharma

Hmm, let's suppose you rule Rome and we're talking about Caesar (NOT Pliny). :notworthy Now some guys come and say, "hey, I'm worshipping Jesus the Christ, the King of Israel, the Messiah, Jews are sons of Satan for rejecting this dude, I'm not worshipping Caesar!" Now I'm gonna form a group and start converting people, saying "Caesar shouldn't be worshipped, Jesus the King should!"

There's a word for that, it's called "TREASON".

It's like saying, hey "Let the direct descendant of David be the Prime Minister of Israel, and let him rule America!" Hey, Georgie porgie, you ain't the chosen one of God! Now you start organizing a way to overturn the U.S. constitution and government.

Hmm, even in a modern world, would you be surprised if the US government didn't sick a whole host of FBI and CIA agents after you?

And your other comment on where the hypocrisy is if Jesus said "i'm the way" and Christians being forbidden to worship Caesar. I think I quoted many contradictory things that Jesus said in the earlier post which contradicts "i'm the way" quote. Jesus saying "we are all the sons of God" is one of them.

gee

Dharma;

"...Now I'm gonna form a group and start converting people, saying "Caesar shouldn't be worshipped, Jesus the King should!"

If you are saying that killing Christians was justified....so be it.

gee