Pjanc

I'm rather new to this forum and quite fankly don't have the time to read through as many posts as this forum gets per day so I appologize in advance if this has been brought up before.

Here's what bothers me. Of what I've been told, most people have never seen God or any other figure from the Christian mythology. Belief is mostly based on the Bible and account from different people who claim they've seen Virgin Mary or some other figure.

Now neither of these seem very reliable to me. If we leave the Bible aside and focus on these people who claim they had visions - I myself have had a few strange sightings. All without exception when seriously drunk. But this is besides the point.

What I'm going at is that someone (such as me) with a critical point of view would need substantial evidence of God's existence, something the above mentioned cases aren't. Now to my point - is being naive (I dare even say gullible) to believe poorly proven arguments like that really a quality that an omniscient being would value above all others? Now if the Christian God gave us free will, wouldn't he/she (yep, not capitalised for a reason) want us to use it instead of just trusting some guy because he seems like he knows what he's talking? Christians are often referred to as a herd of sheep - where's free will in that?

Wouldn't it make more sense that - before accepting a religion, an action that has such groundbraking effect on one's life - one studied it thoroughly? According to religions now that doesn't matter, just join them and everything's solved. In such case it's just the matter of who finds you first - a priest, a rabbi or an imam.

I wonder if I'm making any sense...

johntheapostate

Dont get me started on free will.

Manitoumulegirl

Wife beaters don't seem to have any problem with it. The little woman does something to make her man upset, so he gives her a couple of black eyes and says, "Now, see what you made me do?" The Xian god seems to operate out of the same mindset.

show_no_mercy

An omniscient God would expect anything. He'd simply know.

seebs

Well, obviously, if it were truly omniscient, it would expect exactly what eventually happens!

Seriously, though, this is one of the reasons that I'm pretty sure that the focus on "belief" is misunderstood. If I tell you to believe in me, which is more likely -- that I'm asking you to assent to claims that I exist, or that I'm asking you to trust me and do what I advise?

jonesg

As a baby you trusted your parents to feed you, protect you and teach you, they did their best.
Now you have to find your own way.
If a person is relying on other people to convince them ,by argument or debate their concept of God is true, then they have not grown up yet.

So yeh, a person must investigate and decide for themself.
I would say look for proof in your life, not outside your life.

Godless Wonder

Since you're a person, and people are quite commonly known to exist -- espectially ones making demands -- of course you're asking for trust. It's the next thing out of your mouth that's of concern, the part right after "C'mon, trust me...."

However, gods, being so far as I can tell, non-existent, have not gotten as far as even saying "C'mon, trust me..." yet.

seebs

Ahh, but consider that the "believe in Me" thing was, supposedly, uttered by a person standing in front of the people to whom it was addressed.

JohNeo

Well, if we are all sinful, and God made us in his image, then I have no choice but to think that God himself would be fallen and sinful. If God is all-knowing and all-powerful, that is.

So I don't think God should expect too much from us, and I don't think we should expect too much from him. Sounds fair to me. :huh:

JohNeo

Deacon Doubtmonger

Here's a darkly funny take on the gullibility-as-virtue issue:

In the Beginning ... God Was Nuts!!!