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Old 05-15-2009, 09:27 AM   #51
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"Saul, who was also called Paul"

I have speculated (based on nothing concrete) that the Paul character in Acts is a composite, perhaps of Paul and Silas, Silas being the Aramaic form of Saul or Silvanus.
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Old 05-15-2009, 12:08 PM   #52
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Default Paulus Becomes Paul and Saul Becomes Silas

Thanks Toto,

The note about Silas being the Aramaic form of Saul really helps.

There is a sharp break in the text at 13:13 where the author/editor starts suddenly referring to Saul as Paul. The key to understanding this is to look at the lines preceeding this break:

Quote:
When the proconsul saw what had happened, he believed, for he was amazed at the teaching about the Lord.
Quote:
From Paphos, Paul and his companions sailed to Perga ...
The proconsul is Sergius Paulus. Let us assume that the original author was continuing the story of Paulus. It is the newly converted proconsul Paulus and his Christian companions who make the trip to Perga.

The original author has Barnabus and Saul together going to Cyprus. Note that Cypress is Barnabus' homeland.

4:36Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (which means Son of Encouragement)

The conversion of the proconsul of Cyprus Sergius Paulus would be a pretty big feather in Barnabas' cap. If he then went on to travel and preach with Barnabas, that would be even a greater thing.

Now note this oddity:
Quote:
1In the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul. 2While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." 3So after they had fasted and prayed, they placed their hands on them and sent them off.
4The two of them, sent on their way by the Holy Spirit, went down to Seleucia and sailed from there to Cyprus. 5When they arrived at Salamis, they proclaimed the word of God in the Jewish synagogues. John was with them as their helper.
Quote:
13From Paphos, Paul and his companions sailed to Perga in Pamphylia, where John left them to return to Jerusalem.
John is brought to Cyprus and does not do a damn thing and suddenly without explanation leaves to go back to Jerusalem. Why?

Let us suppose that John did not join Saul and Barnabus in Cypress. Let us suppose the original text told of Saul and Barnabus converting Paulus and then continued with the tales of Paulus and Barnabus. Saul was no longer needed or perhaps he got into a fight with Paulus. In any case, the original text read:

13From Paphos, Paulus and his companions sailed to Perga in Pamphylia, where Saul left them to return to Jerusalem.

Such a text would prove that Saul was less important than Barnabas and more importantly that Paul and Saul were two different people. The editor wanted to build up the importance of Saul by incorporating the adventures of Paulus into the adventures of Saul. Since Saul cannot be Paul if he is in both Pamphylia and in Jerusalem at the same time, somebody else has to go home. The simplest thing for the editor to do is to add a line about how John went to Cyprus and then change the name Saul to John when he departs to Jerusalem.

The story now continues smoothly, but the editor soon runs into another problem, when "Judas and Silas" are sent to Paul/Paulus and Barnabas.
Let us assume that the original text read "Judas and Saul." We original text of the fight would have read this way.

Quote:
36Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, "Let us go back and visit the brothers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing." 37Barnabas wanted to take Saul, with them, 38but Paulus did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. 39They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Judas and sailed for Cyprus, 40but Paulus chose Saul and left, commended by the brothers to the grace of the Lord. 41He went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.
This passage would again show that Paul/Paulus and Saul are not one person, so the editor has to change Saul into Silas and Judas, into "John also called Mark"

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay






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Originally Posted by Toto View Post
"Saul, who was also called Paul"

I have speculated (based on nothing concrete) that the Paul character in Acts is a composite, perhaps of Paul and Silas, Silas being the Aramaic form of Saul or Silvanus.
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Old 05-15-2009, 12:14 PM   #53
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So is there a difference between John surnamed Mark, John son of Zebedee, John the Apostle/Evangelist (writer or editor of the gospel), and John the Elder (writer of 2 John)?

Apologists need to get their John's flushed out.
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Old 05-15-2009, 12:40 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spin View Post
Well, I certainly failed to communicate.
To the contrary, you communicated very eloquently a position that I see as unnecessary. Just because I disagree with you does not mean that you are a poor communicator. Buck up, little camper.

Ben.
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Old 05-15-2009, 01:51 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben C Smith View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spin View Post
Well, I certainly failed to communicate.
To the contrary, you communicated very eloquently a position that I see as unnecessary. Just because I disagree with you does not mean that you are a poor communicator. Buck up, little camper.
Sorry, Ben C. You're just providing more evidence for the fact!


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