Haylow

Something had to commit the first action of wrong doing in this world, this is where i think adam and eve if not taken to literally is 100% correct
Can there be any recourse for adams first action or only consequence which will also mean that armagedden will also be 100%correct
If every action must have a consequnce then whatever started this cycle of wrong doing has surely condem this world to die.

lunachick

Huh?

Rhaedas

And they say atheists are bitter and pessimistic...

Doesn't your apparent concern for the original sin and your conclusion that this first sin has condemned the world make you question the validity of said story? If not, why not?

Jamie_L

Well, how do we define wrong-doing?

Was the first self-replicating organic entity that destroyed another self-replicating organic entity committing the first "wrong"?

Or do we need things able to coneptualize "right" and "wrong"? If we need moral agents, then we have to shoot forward to a stage in evolution when there were more intelligent beings. But when were those beings intelligent enough to be considered moral agents? And what level of wrong are we talking? Not letting someone eat as much food as they wanted? Taking one of their pelts in the middle of the night? Bashing them over the head with a club?

And why would any of this have any direct ramification on anyone else, much less the whole world?

Jamie

Haylow

Because all action in this world is wrong action or right action

Religion is wrong action in a great many non belivers eyes

Non belief is wrong action in a great many religous peoples eyes

Therefor there both wrong action, where both sides will argue that there right and the other is wrong which again is another wrong action

I can give a lot more examples other than the one above, in fact as many as you like.

from that i get all action in this world is wrong action which must of came from the original sin (adam and eve)

In the right world we would live forever there would be no harm
(heaven)
In this world the wrong world we die and do cause harm
(hell)

because i die (our own armaggedden) the world must die (it's own armaggedden)

Death must be our chance for salvation where god offers you your purity and innocence where you chose to take his offer or return back to the world (hell) till upon your next death and next death till you had enough of wrong action.

P.S Rheadas i don't feel that i am concerned, i live and breathe for armaggedden and hope it happens in my life time, really i can't express just how excited i am about it.
Its going to be the most wonderful moment in history the end of satan and of wrong action.

Infidelettante

Well that explains a lot. Now explain why Paul said it would happen in his life time.:banghead:

JT

Abel Stable

...according to the christian worldview/tradition. I don't believe this is true at all- at the very least its a false dichotomy. I don't think your premise holds up.
So..."right & wrong" is objective? According to your premise, one of them is right & the other is wrong.
So they're only wrong when they argue? Or one of them is right & the other wrong, unless they argue, then they�re both wrong? I'm lost. And how did you come to this conclusion? You categorically know what is right & wrong in every possible action?
Why? Because it is such a dramatic scene? The idea is more appropriate to a drama or a play or a work of fiction.
Hypothetically, I'll say your supreme "right - wrong" dichotomy is legit. Why would Adam's transgression "release" wrongness to infect everybody else's actions if right/wrong is already inherent in action? In other words, if you can only do right or wrong things, why is it that you can only do something wrong after somebody "breaks the seal."

And what if Adam & Eve had children before sinning, but one or all of the children refused to partake...would they be cursed also? Or would they start a sinless family?...and what if they had a family with their sinful brethren?

I believe that the story of the fall is an allegory trying to explain why there is suffering in the world.
How sad. God gave you this beautiful planet in this amazing universe, and all you want is to get out of it. Sure, there's suffering in life, but God made that too, and it all fits together perfectly. But you're like the kid sitting in the back seat of the car shouting: "Are we there yet? Are we there yet?...." You're more greatful that God gave the choice of heaven or hell than you are for the universe.

Haylow

because paul was wrong, all action in the world is wrong action

Abel Stable

What??

Haylow

Able stabel

I didn't say right and wrong are objective but all action in the
world is wrong action because of original sin by adam

If you agree with me or disagree with me i am still right because if you disagree your saying i'm wrong and there it is again wrong action.
In heaven noboby disagrees. so do you see your not in heaven but in hell, satan is tricking you in to thinking that the world is not all wrong action so you don't want to leave it.

The world is hell, you better start seeing the world as hell otherwise you won't make it to heaven where heaven is all right action, there is no wrong action in heaven but there is wrong action here because its hell.

If this world is not hell you should not see any wrong action in it.

Thats the message of god thats how you free yourself from satan because you can see wrong action in the world, but you can't see that its all wrong action, because satan is weaveing his trickery over you.
If there is one wrong action that you see in this world then its all wrong action = hell (thats gods message)