tanya

Can you provide a quote?

I fervently disagree with you.

So, Toto, is this an error of omission, in Wikipedia? Did the authors of this article neglect to include the Jews and Samaritans, just as they did not include the Muslims or Sikhs?

Did the Jews living in Palestine and Alexandria, 2000 years ago, have shrines in their homes? How about the ancient Egyptians? Did intellectuals of Egypt pray to Isis with a shrine in their homes?

"Ancient Men", who? maybe Eratosthenes? Some Indian or Persian or Egyptian intellectual? Philo is not uneducated. He knows the Hebrew literature, backwards and forwards. He knows ALL the authors of the "old testament". All of them. Yet, here he writes not: "David", or "Moses", or "Zecchariah", or any other famous Jewish author, but rather, "Ancient Men".

To my way of thinking, Joan Taylor has some "splainin" to do.....

Did the Jews have a similar custom, saying prayers twice each day, seven days a week, at sunrise and sunset? Was this custom introduced to Judaism, by the Zoroastrian influence during the sojurn in Baghdad, or is the custom described in documents dating from the First Temple period, 600 BCE, the time of Apastamba?

Nonsense. Joan Taylor is writing as though the Therapeutae have been identified as Jewish. That's the issue, though, isn't it? Joan Taylor adopts her conclusion, without demonstrating why this notion should be regarded as a logical consequence of the data she has presented. Well, let's see, we know that the earth is the center of the solar system, because the earth is the center of the solar system, and now Joan Taylor will explain to us how lunar orbits affect solar eclipses.

We have seen a similar attitude expressed previously, on this forum. Bart Ehrman, for example, insists that Jesus must have been a real human, because Paul claimed to have met Jesus' brother. Surely James would know his own brother? How can anyone doubt that?

Stick with the facts:

Philo demonstrates that these folks, the therapeutae:

a. live by themselves, not in urban areas (among the Jews!!);

b. study ancient texts, presumably in Greek, and I would then assume, since Philo quotes both Hippocrates and Homer, that the Therapeutae were reading those famous texts, not the epistles of Paul!! Does Philo explicitly claim that the Therapeutae are praying to YHWH? Does he claim that they are studying LXX? If these Therapeutae are Jews, why is Philo not mentioning the HEBREW texts studied by the Therapeutae? Philo devotes a couple of sentences, at the beginnning, discussing Greek, the language, as though it were relevant to the Therapeutae. If Greek language skills were not relevant to the Therapeutae, why does Philo discuss Greek, and not Hebrew, instead?

How in the world does this text of Philo persuade us, that the Therapeutae were Jewish?

c. We know that Egypt was ruled by the Persians, before the conquest of Alexander. Do we suppose that there were no influence inserted into daily life by the Persians, in Egypt? How do we explain the Therapeutae's rigid system of prayer twice each day, at sunrise and sunset? Does that sound to you, Toto, like Zoroastrian influence, sun worshippers, or Moses? Maybe I am just a "fly" to employ your pal's designation, so ignorant of Jewish customs and Jewish law, that I simply don't know the facts: YES Jews are obliged to pray, in accord with the movements of the sun. (i.e. rotation of the earth along its axis). I acknowledge ignorance, here, Toto, give me a reference, please, illustrating Jewish reverence for solar movement, notwithstanding their long standing adherence to a lunar calendar.

d. What is this bit, about the shrine in each home? I have lived in countries where folks have shrines in their homes. It is a big deal. I simply cannot imagine shrines in the houses of Jews. Maybe that shows how ignorant I am, regarding the prohibition to construct graven images....

In the extracts of Joan's book, I find nothing, zero, to hang my hat, on the Therapeutae being Jewish. Maybe I missed something (again). I hope you will straighten me out, particularly with respect to Joan's citation of Hippocrates. Does she mention the relationship, cited in my reference, earlier in this thread, where Hippocrates himself mentions the Therapeutae, in connection with Egyptian deities?

aa5874

Again, Toto we are dealing with and examining the actual contents of "On the Contemplative Life" and it does not claim that the Therapeutae were Christians or Jews.

We are not dealing with flawed opinion of modern Scholarship right now.

Toto, even you CONVENIENTLY reject modern Scholarship.

aa5874

Why don't you tell us what Philo wrote about the Therapeutae??

Philo SPECIFICALLY claimed the Therapeutae studied ancient writings of other sects and used them as Models.

The Therapeutae were NOT Jewish or of Jewish origin in the writings of Philo.

On the Contemplative Life

stephan huller

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::h ysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

Robert, are you serious? This is what you call evidence? A cursory reference by your masala messiah to someone else who came up with a 'possible interpretation'? What has happened to your mind?

stephan huller

Oh God. Why do you feel such a strong need to go beyond what the evidence can reasonably support? There is no basis to any of these ridiculous claims. Why not just make up a sect of Buddhist Jews in the manner of the Mormons if you feel so constrained by the actual evidence?

I just despise anything New Age. I remember when I was working a summer job in Toronto and my boss told me to round up some strippers for a big sales meeting. So we went to the House of Lancaster my buddy and I (my boss actually lent me his car and I danged it up) and I met this very beautiful French Canadian dancer who had the (old) Raelian symbol (swastika inside a star of David) and I said all I knew about the sect (when I was young I stumbled into a Psychic's Convention high and ended up arguing with Hare Krishnas about why anyone should refrain from eating eggs). In the end, she told me that they were trained to give pleasure to men in order to help prepare for the day when the aliens were coming back to earth. I quickly had to decide whether I wanted to continue the argument and be right or shut my mouth and be happy.

I found a new photo of a Raelian lady with the re-designed symbol:



Old Raelian symbol

mountainman

http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/cide/177392/Therapeutae

Apparently in 1913 according to Webster the Therapeutae are described in a work attributed to Philo, the genuineness and credibility of which are now much discredited.

Clivedurdle

Kos definitely has a temple at the top. Issue is how important was it - like a hospital chapel or actually central?

Toto

That is the "Collaborative International Dictionary of English" hosted on a Russian site, using Webster's 1913 as a source because it is now public domain.

More on Webster's 1913

mountainman

A reviewer (Bull. Hist. Med., 2002) of Asclepius: The God of Medicine by Gerald David Hart states that 513 sites have been identified associated with the cult of Asclepius.



Eusebius gleefully describes the Destruction of the Temple of Aesculapius at Aegae ....

mountainman

http://machaut.uchicago.edu/?resourc...=on&use1828=on


I wonder what scholarship the 1913 edition of Websters used?

Obviously there were respected scholars c.1913 who very much doubted the genuineness and credibility of "VC".

Who were they, and what were their reasons for this assessment?

Were they just uneducated protestants?