tanya

AGREE!

Stephan would hijack the thread to convey inappropriate sexual innuendo regarding one forum member, and Toto would assist him, as the two of them divert attention AWAY from the OP, and toward the huller hobby horse, Alexandria, where, at any minute now, we will encounter a wall of text from (wait, wait, don't tell me.... YES, CLEMENT!! hurrah!)

Both of them ignore the EVIDENCE in support of the OP, instead arguing nonsense about Philo this or Philo that, as if Philo, not the Therapeutae, were the OP.

How many of Stephan's posts on this thread, misrepresent what someone has actually written?

Here's a typical example:

I have not encountered such a sentiment, expressed by anyone writing on this thread. Why would he suggest it? It is an age old tactic, divert attention away from the genuine topic, and refute a non-existent argument.

No one on this forum believes that Philo was not a Jew. However, whether Philo was, or was not Jewish is IRRELEVANT to the OP.

That's what is derailing the forum.

stephan huller

So your point is that this is a Pete fantasyworld only thread. It would be like having a hundred ugly women forbidding the acceptance of any standard of beauty in order to make themselves embody being beautiful. If threads could be tailor made in such a way as to shut out the light, yes it would be possible for instance to argue that Jesus used an Ipad (assuming you forbade referencing the actual date the invention the product was invented). But what use would that be? This is a silly thread and it is silly to forbid people from referencing Philo, the Contemplative Life and everything that should serve as an anchor for understanding who and what the Therapeutai community on the shores of Lake Mareotis were. It would be like writing a history of race relations in the United State and banning speaking about the slavery. It's just so silly. We can't simply make up history to suite our prejudices. There was slavery in America and it is necessary to understand why there are bad race relations in this country. So too Philo and the Vita Contemplativa and what it is to be Jewish is necessary to understand these therapeutai.

stephan huller

And there is this constant false equivalency with respect to this debate being 'Stephan's POV' versus the rest of the clown posse. No my 'opinion' is the established understanding. It's also the right answer until someone comes up with something better. It is the only answer until you or the rest of the people unloading from that clown car come up with a rational argument. I just happen to go along with the establish understanding because I can't see a reason to doubt the Jewish identity of the sect. But to pretend that we are arguing on a level playing field - you guys against me - is lunacy. Most everyone else who has actually read the material wouldn't bother wasting his or her time with this band of fools. The real question is why do I have time to waste?

Toto

OK, I marked in bold where the OP mentions Philo and [On] The Contemplative Life.

Happy now?

Pete is welcome to go edit Wikipedia.

Otherwise, this is just another thread where Pete edges up to what he really wants to say, without daring to actually expose how crazy his theories are.

tanya

Umm. Let me see. So, you suppose that I have trouble understanding that this thread is really about the part which you have highlighted? Am I to understand that in your view, this thread is NOT about the Therapeutae, rather, in contrast to what I have written, the OP is about Philo and "The Contemplative Life", since that is what you have emphasized with your enlarged font?

Gosh, no, now that you suggest it, I can perceive a significant degree of unhappiness, for, I am obviously dyslexic:

Clearly, I have missed the boat here.

I had thought that Pete's purpose was to challenge a pervasive misimpression, due not to an inferior Wiki article, but due to a misunderstanding of history, in general, and scientific inquiry in particular. Thus, I had mistakenly imagined that this thread was meant to challenge those members of the forum who carry with them a sophomoric analysis of the events surrounding the genesis of Christianity, by introducing a topic intended to highlight the extent to which religious folks will dance on their heads if need be, to prevent anything or anyone, from disturbing their preconceived notions of how events of two millenia ago, had unfolded.

Nominally, in my distorted view, the thread was intended to highlight the FACT that the Therapeutae were widespread, both in time and space, and thereby represented NOT just some tiny Jewish clan, presumed ancestors of Christianity, springing up out of the suburbs of Alexandria, city of distinction, founded by that famous Jew, Alexander of Macedonia, whose teacher was Aristotle, student of another famous Jew, Plato.

But, now, I understand, it is I, not you, who has misunderstood the OP. The OP is homage to Philo, Jewish scholar extraordinaire, and grand nephew of Aristotle, famous rabbi of Athens. Yes, Toto, your further elaboration clearly explains the nature of my profound error:

Hallelujah! Praise the lord. I see the light, at last. Thank you Toto. Thank you Stephan. The light is bright and shining right in my eyes. Wonderful.

Pete, you rascal!!!!!

Why would you set me up? Haha, you knew I would fall for that old trick of writing something that LOOKS cerebral, but is really nothing more than a devious ploy, designed to trick poor tanya, with her foot in her mouth, drooling on the floor, like a ....well, Stephan said it best:

Yessir, praise the lord. Hallelujah, epiphany. I have seen the light.

mountainman

See the Talk page. This thread was started after this edit in order to discuss any other evidence we might have for the existence of a Jewish sect called the therapeutae AND IN THE ABSENCE of such forthcoming evidence to present the absolutely abundant evidence that the pagan empire of the first few centuries of the common era already had a high profile class of pagan temple attendents who were known to themselves and to the pagan populace at large as therapeutae.


Is it crazy to explore the possibility that Philo did not author "VC".

Above, where I have reproduced the list of arguments by which the possibility arises that the author of "VC" was not Philo, you responded with the theory that because the author is hostile to Hellenism then the author of "VC" was Jewish.

Your theory is not a crazy theory is it?

Yet if we use your same logic and your same argument we may just as validly theorize that because the author is hostile to Hellenism then the author of "VC" may have been Christian.

If you are now claiming that this possibility is a crazy theory, then what are your reasons for the claim of craziness?

It's not exactly as if the early Christians never forged their own propaganda is it?

Chili

A Christian would never do such thing Pete, a Catholic maybe, but Christians are the head hunters and they have learned to walk upright!. And so what else is new?

mountainman

There is no certainty in history without corroborative evidence. Your continual appeal to authority is blind faith unless you can furnish evidence for the existence of a Jewish sect of therapeutae outside of "VC" and you have certainly not done this.

Furthermore if Philo was not the author of "VC" (and I have presented evidence to consider this possibility may be true) then you have no source whatsoever supporting the mainstream claim that the therapeutae were a Jewish sect, except a forgery in the name of Philo.

Toto

This does appear to be Pete's attempt to conflate the Therapeuts that Philo (or whoever) describes, with his hobby horse heroes, the pagan Therapeuts.

So we are back to square one. What do these groups have in common other than a generic term as their name?

stephan huller

Present a reasoned argument not a link to a Wikipedia page. What about the Contemplative Life should make us reconsider Philonic authorship? Philo deals with the Essaioi in his other writings, he describes them as therapeutai or in related terms. What should possibly make us think there was another Philo who also took an interest in the Essaioi and also liked describing Jewish groups as therapeutai? This is especially unusual given the word does not appear in the LXX.

The problem of course is that I already know the ending to this pretend discussion. Pete doubts any text associated with Eusebius. But I don't share that suspicion nor it is a reasonable basis for discounting the text. I have looked at the language of the Contemplative Life and it seems Philonic to me. Since I don't share his suspicions I need something substantial to turn me around on this one. Not to mention that no serious scholar has ever doubted the authorship (nor could they because they aren't half mad with a crazy conspiracy theory)