Half-Life

Six million dying in the Holocaust compared to the number of Jews that have existed all throughout history is an extremely low percentage.

please try again to debunk this one.

We have nothing but facts here:

1. God said Israel will be rebuilt and he will protect and watch over the nation and its people.

2. Israel WAS rebuilt and became a nation.

3. Almost ten countries attacked peaceful Israel and FAILED to bring it down.

So, what's the explanation?

Half-Life

So, you established that you want God to force people to know he exists. He doesn't want people to come to know him out of the goodness and love in their hearts.

Wow! Talk about a God who doesn't care, huh?!?

spin

Didn't happen. The people of Israel are lost.

You are misrepresenting the prophecy. The people of Judah don't fulfill the prophecy about Israel.

Pernicious rubbish. Zionist Israel started three out of the four wars. The other was started in an effort to regain what Israel had stolen. There is nothing peaceful about a country that imposes apartheid on people within and without their country.

Your biases mislead you.


spin

Roland

Coincidence? Self-fulfillment? Either of those seem more reasonable than the work of some divine hand. And, frankly, neither the "prophecy" nor its supposed "fulfillment" really seem all that amazing.

And as to the six-million lost in the Holocaust, that sure doesn't show much of a "protective hand" from a god who supposedly cares so much for his people.

Half-Life

No, YOU are misrepresenting the prophecy. The prophecy states that Israel will be watched over and rebuilt. It was.

The prophecy also stated the the people of Israel will be back in Israel. They are.

How many were in Israel before 1948? How many after?

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to put 2 and 2 together.

Half-Life

Yes, it was just a mere coincidence that a nation's people were outcast out of Israel and then returned again to repopulate it.

How do you also explain the one where God said he would flow rivers through it when there was nothing but dirt in biblical times?

guess Ezekial just "got lucky", huh?

spin

Uh-huh. Where are the people of Israel that Ezekiel talked about now? Apparently nowhere.

Rubbish. The people of Judah are in the territory occupied by Judah and Israel.

Descendents of the people of Israel? None before or after. Only descendants of the people of Judah.

Yup, that's right. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that you can't read.


spin

rickP

Dude, you should really read your history. The Arab forces never numbered more than 55,000 at it's peak. They were always outnumbered by the Israeli forces thruout the 1948-49 war. The Arab countries never attacked en masse and some of the countries backed out after a few skirmishes. The Israelis had better support and more experience as many of their men had fought in WWII. The Israeli forces started out at about 35,000 and rose to over 100,000 by 1949 due to the constant influx of immigrants.

It was superior numbers, better equipment and training and a stronger will to win that gave them ultimate victory, not some miracle from on high.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War

Johnny Skeptic

Not at all. Consider the following Scriptures:

John 2:23

“Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.”

John 3:2

“The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.”

John 10:37-38

“If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.”

John 11:43-48

"And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go. Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him. But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done. Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation."

John 20:30-31

“And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples which are not written in this book. But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. ”

Did any of that tangible, firsthand evidence force anyone to become a follower of Jesus?

It is up to you to reasonably explain why Jesus criticized Thomas for requiring tangible, firsthand evidence that he had risen from the dead, but willingly provided tangible firsthand evidence to many people who were not convinced by his words alone.

If Jesus had accurately predicted what the names of the Roman emperors would be for the next 200 years, and their dates of birth and death, surely more people would have become Christians. That is a reasonable assumption since historically, many people have accepted all kinds of outlandish religions based upon much less convincing evidence than that. In addition, Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce attracted a lot of followers based upon a lot less convincing evidence than that.

rickP

Seriously? There were no rivers or other bodies of water in Palestine before the 1st century CE? No River Jordan? No Sea of Gallilee? No Dead Sea?