sotto voce

This revelation makes no difference.

Toto

But what about "the habit of scientific research makes a man cautious in admitting evidence"? Surely that makes a difference in you quote-mined misrepresentation of Darwin.

Surely you could apply this insight to your claim that the New Testament is "evidence."

sotto voce

Scientific method is restricted to repeatable phenomena. By its very nature, a unique resurrection is not susceptible to scientific method. Ergo, Darwin's 'qualification' is meaningless, except as a reflection of his personal attitude. The fact is that he recognised that science could not impinge on the NT.

No claim whatever in the NT or OT is susceptible to scientific method.

EarlDoherty

There are a lot of crazy scenarios that science cannot "disprove." That doesn't mean we ought to believe them.

Yes or no, SV. Do you believe demons exist and that they malevolently cause at least some illnesses? Have you not got the courage of your convictions to answer?

Earl Doherty

andrewcriddle

There was a war on.

Andrew Criddle

sotto voce

What is crazy about atonement?

mountainman

Are we being reconciled with a demon?

EarlDoherty

It depends on the context. A murderer atoning for his crime through some form of restitution to the victim's family is one thing. Believing that God sent his primary emanation to earth to be tortured and murdered by the very people whose sins he is supposedly redeeming through their act of torture and murder is irrational nonsense. "Crazy" is another word for it.

Is God going to "forgive" us our sins through an act in which he himself is guilty of "conspiracy before the fact", requiring us to perform a heinous and criminal deed in order to set up that redemption? He needs our forgiveness not only for that but for foisting such an irrationality upon us. "Crazy" is another word for it.

Do you believe that demons exist, SV, and malevolently cause some illnesses? Why won't you answer? I guess we already know, since you are hardly going to defend the acceptability of other people's irrational beliefs if you don't subscribe to those irrational beliefs yourself. So why are you not willing to confirm those beliefs? Do you not have the courage of your own convictions? Do you believe in demons or not?

Earl Doherty

sotto voce

Who is 'we'? Followers of Constantine? It has been alleged that this following deals with the devil (largely through 'Mary') because there is with them no actual principle of atonement; though it is doubtful that the devil would allow any to be reconciled anyway, as reconciliation is against his religion, so to speak. That really is a crazy belief, though of course most of the adherents do not realise it.

sotto voce

The physical aspect is secondary. Many were crucified, with no benefit accruing, except perhaps to the crucifiers. The primary aspect is the guilt and blame accorded to the only innocent person, a spiritual penalty by which those who have faith are accounted innocent. For those who feel no guilt, that means nothing; but for those who do, it more than makes sense. For those people, the murder of an innocent man neatly demonstrated need for atonement.