Toto

Such hubris. If you can effectively deal with the arguments, why have you not persuaded anyone here?

JonA

It has nothing to do with persuading your debate opponent. I think everyone takes as a given the fact that many folk who heavily participate on Internet debate forums generally have a set point of view on certain things which no amount of reasoning can challenge. These people aren't worth trying to persuade of anything.

It's the people who aren't big participants in the debate that are important—the lurkers, the members who joined a long time ago but aren't opinionated enough to want to post often, etc. These people are not set in their ways regarding one position or the other. They can examine the evidence presented on both sides and determine whether or not it supports the positions it has been presented to support.

These are the people you're trying to persuade; they determine who wins the debate—not your opponent.

Jon

Atheos

Toto hit the nail on the head. If the debate was titled "There are no contradictions in the New Testament", the debate would be winnable. As long as the other user has the ability to fall back on "Well, that contradiction is of no consequence" (and doesn't have to define "consequence") the debate simply cannot be won.

JonA

I too joined and posted a new debate:

Paul Believed in a (recent) Historical Jesus

If you like playing the devil's advocate, you're free to jump in. Otherwise I'm sure there are plenty of others here (and hopefully at Debate.org) who would have much to say on the Con side regarding Paul and his view of Jesus!

Jon

Steven Carr

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Paul believed Jesus had existed since the beginning of time. I guess you can't lose the debate if you regard 'recent' as 'any time since the world began , but not before.'

According to the parameters of your debate, you have now become a Wellsian-mythicist, as Wells position in his first few books was that Paul believed Jesus to have lived on Earth relatively recently (perhaps in the past century or two).

As I said on another thread, mythicism is now mainstream NT thinking :-)

JonA

Like those who compiled the gospel of John, Paul can believe that Jesus existed since time began and believe Jesus to have recently walked the Earth.

Since we are talking about someone's beliefs, it is not required that they make any sense whatsoever.

Jon

Steven Carr

I suppose the author of 'Mark' also believed Moses and Elijah to have recently walked on Earth.

That means , according to all the methodologies of mainstream NT scholars, that Moses and Elijah had been recent historical figures.

JonA

Feel free to accept my challenge on Debate.org.

Jon

Meatros

First, it's nice to see you here Kohai.

Second, I don't think the debate is particularly structured in a fair manner. When trying to resolve a contradiction, any answer will do. Is this particularly rational? I don't think so, but the apologists does.

Meatros

Shoot, another II member! I've already commented in that thread. :-)