Freethought & Rationalism Archive

hokowo · 03-30-2007, 01:14 AM

do you think what you do really makes a difference and why?

in the big picture all you do has no effect on the final end or destination of the universe according to how we understand modern science to day.

so if you feel your life has a meaning, please let me know why?

pkostrze · 03-30-2007, 02:13 AM

I'm not a great man, I'm just a guy but I provide love to my wife, care to my pets, contributions to charities, and hard work to my employer. Do I think the world would be radically different had I not existed? No, probably not.

In what way does someones life NOT have meaning? I sleep, I eat, I work, I love, I plan, I hope, I dream, I exist... I don't have to justify my life or its meaning.

The question I pose is - what added meaning would theism provide to ones life? Would Mother Theresa's works be any less meaningful had she been secular? Would the holocaust provide meaning to Hitler's life had he done it in the name of god? He certainly made a difference... was that a good thing?

ELECTROGOD · 03-30-2007, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hokowo

Atheists, do you feel your life has a meanning?

Why wouldn't it? Because we don't believe in your particular god idea?

Quote:

do you think what you do really makes a difference and why?

This is a whole different question than the title question.
Some might and some might not, it would depend on the different circumstances of people.
Remember, atheism is merely the lack of belief in gods.

Mr Carcer · 03-30-2007, 03:27 AM

Given the choice between wonder or meaning, I will always choose wonder. Wonder is chaos, flux, renewal, transition, energy, ephemeral, moving, dynamic, flowing, rejuvenating. Meaning is fixed, permanent, stagnant, eternal, abiding, unmoving, sedentary, patient. Meaning is a statue. Wonder however is music and dance.

We have been raised to believe that the worth of anything is tied to how long it endures. We have conflated value with permanancy and depth with eternity. In doing so we have devalued everything that is wonderful. Why be happy if you can't be happy forever, asks the disciples of the fixed and eternal. Why fall in love if your love will not last until the end of time, asks another amongst their ranks. Why believe anything if you cannot be certain that you will be convinced of its truthfulness for all time, asks yet another. They want only what is eternal and unchanging. They seek meaning and all too often leave no place in their hearts for wonder.

Those who leave no place for wonder maybe feel that it is worthless because it never exists beyond the moment. But I say that is precisely because it only exists for a moment that I value it above the fixed and eternal. It is precisely why I value the wonderful above the meaningful. I know that any meaning I possess will be with me tomorrow and so I do not treasure meaning. But I can never hold on to wonder for more than brief time. Therefore when I possess it, I treasure it.

Hortulanus · 03-30-2007, 03:32 AM

Life is only meaningful to myself. The interesting fact is that, according to religion, there is no difference: your life's point is to be saved by God, so it is also meaningful to yourself only.

hokowo · 03-30-2007, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hortulanus

Life is only meaningful to myself. The interesting fact is that, according to religion, there is no difference: your life's point is to be saved by God, so it is also meaningful to yourself only.

exactly.

i really dig your 1st post

and its really not meant in a sarcastic way at all.

welcome to the world of the infidel chat group, ad thanks for posting in a theist's thread

I ate Pascal's Wafer · 03-30-2007, 04:40 AM

My life makes a difference to me and my family. I don't care that what I do now won't ultimately make much of a difference, but that doesn't stop me from living my life doing what I enjoy.

I think you can give life meaning and importance without invoking the supernatural.

I ate Pascal's Wafer · 03-30-2007, 04:48 AM

hokowo,

Why do you think Nihilism is a reasonable conclusion once one becomes an Atheist? Are you asking questions like that because you're interested in learning where we come from, or do you think you'll be able depress us enough to want so that you can present your religion as a reasonable pick-me-up?

JPD · 03-30-2007, 04:59 AM

Isn't the meaning the one you give it at that point in time? A combination of hopes, fears, aims and goals, optimism, realism, surrealism. Its in constant flux. Its liable to change. What has meaning at one point has none during another. One set of meaning isn't necessarily greater or lesser than another - the difference is in how strongly it is felt. We can feel what turns out to be false and not believe what turns out to be true.
So, feedback from life at that point in time.

EssEff · 03-30-2007, 05:07 AM

It means something to me, therefore it has meaning.

View Poll Results: Atheists, do you feel/think your life is meaningfull or makes a difference?
YES,	73	80.22%
NO,	10	10.99%
other please Explain	8	8.79%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

03-30-2007, 01:14 AM	#1
hokowo Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Western Europe Posts: 1,753	Atheists, do you feel your life has a meanning? do you think what you do really makes a difference and why? in the big picture all you do has no effect on the final end or destination of the universe according to how we understand modern science to day. so if you feel your life has a meaning, please let me know why?

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03-30-2007, 02:13 AM	#2
pkostrze Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 66	I'm not a great man, I'm just a guy but I provide love to my wife, care to my pets, contributions to charities, and hard work to my employer. Do I think the world would be radically different had I not existed? No, probably not. In what way does someones life NOT have meaning? I sleep, I eat, I work, I love, I plan, I hope, I dream, I exist... I don't have to justify my life or its meaning. The question I pose is - what added meaning would theism provide to ones life? Would Mother Theresa's works be any less meaningful had she been secular? Would the holocaust provide meaning to Hitler's life had he done it in the name of god? He certainly made a difference... was that a good thing?

03-30-2007, 03:27 AM	#4
Mr Carcer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 716	Given the choice between wonder or meaning, I will always choose wonder. Wonder is chaos, flux, renewal, transition, energy, ephemeral, moving, dynamic, flowing, rejuvenating. Meaning is fixed, permanent, stagnant, eternal, abiding, unmoving, sedentary, patient. Meaning is a statue. Wonder however is music and dance. We have been raised to believe that the worth of anything is tied to how long it endures. We have conflated value with permanancy and depth with eternity. In doing so we have devalued everything that is wonderful. Why be happy if you can't be happy forever, asks the disciples of the fixed and eternal. Why fall in love if your love will not last until the end of time, asks another amongst their ranks. Why believe anything if you cannot be certain that you will be convinced of its truthfulness for all time, asks yet another. They want only what is eternal and unchanging. They seek meaning and all too often leave no place in their hearts for wonder. Those who leave no place for wonder maybe feel that it is worthless because it never exists beyond the moment. But I say that is precisely because it only exists for a moment that I value it above the fixed and eternal. It is precisely why I value the wonderful above the meaningful. I know that any meaning I possess will be with me tomorrow and so I do not treasure meaning. But I can never hold on to wonder for more than brief time. Therefore when I possess it, I treasure it.

03-30-2007, 03:32 AM	#5
Hortulanus Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 17	Life is only meaningful to myself. The interesting fact is that, according to religion, there is no difference: your life's point is to be saved by God, so it is also meaningful to yourself only.

03-30-2007, 04:40 AM	#7
I ate Pascal's Wafer Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 1,460	My life makes a difference to me and my family. I don't care that what I do now won't ultimately make much of a difference, but that doesn't stop me from living my life doing what I enjoy. I think you can give life meaning and importance without invoking the supernatural.

03-30-2007, 04:48 AM	#8
I ate Pascal's Wafer Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 1,460	hokowo, Why do you think Nihilism is a reasonable conclusion once one becomes an Atheist? Are you asking questions like that because you're interested in learning where we come from, or do you think you'll be able depress us enough to want so that you can present your religion as a reasonable pick-me-up?

03-30-2007, 04:59 AM	#9
JPD Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 5,322	Isn't the meaning the one you give it at that point in time? A combination of hopes, fears, aims and goals, optimism, realism, surrealism. Its in constant flux. Its liable to change. What has meaning at one point has none during another. One set of meaning isn't necessarily greater or lesser than another - the difference is in how strongly it is felt. We can feel what turns out to be false and not believe what turns out to be true. So, feedback from life at that point in time.

03-30-2007, 05:07 AM	#10
EssEff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 5,641	It means something to me, therefore it has meaning.

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