Ben C Smith

Burridge argues convincingly that the nature of the sources (written, oral, whatever) does not affect the genre. I think he is correct.

Ben.

Ben C Smith

Do you see those underlined words, Net Bible, that appear right after the quotation? That underlining is there because those words are a hyperlink. Click on them and your browser will magically draw your attention to the very web page whence No Robots got the quote (this technology is really quite amazing). There you will notice that the statement you are reacting to did not come from Burridge; in fact, nothing on that page, so far as I can see, comes from Burridge.

(Warning: This forum has its external links set up to appear in a new browser window. Do not be alarmed when this new window pops up on your screen. This behavior is normal.)

Posters on this forum frequently include these hyperlinks precisely so that their readers can check the quoted text and its context for themselves. Following such hyperlinks may save you in future from this kind of elementary mistake.

Hope this helps.

Ben.

Ben C Smith

Yes.

Ben.

aa5874

All this shows is that NT scholarship is just going in circles, just a case of futility, where scholars appear to be terrified to fully examine the obvious possibility that the NT does not represent history but mere propaganda or was perhaps inadvertently initiated by the mis-guided beliefs of some unknown writer.

spamandham

If Mark were wholly Jewish:

1. Would we expect Mark to show signs of being translated from Hebrew to Greek rather than being penned originally in Greek?

2. Would we expect Mark to be familiar with the pertinent geography?

3. Would we expect Mark to write a work that is so hostile to Jews and friendly to Rome?

4. Would we expect to find common themes from the "pagan" world: The Word, the descending and ascending god, concepts of the Greek underworld

5. Would we expect Mark's god to be fundamentally different in nature from the Jewish god

bacht

What do you think of Sheshbazzar's theory that gentiles used the Septuagint to craft new religious ideas even before the turn of the era? Would they have "come out of the closet" after the final defeat of the Judeans in the early 2nd C?

Ben C Smith

In what follows, nota bene, I am going to remove the word wholly, since I think it is meaningless in a culture that has been taken over by other cultures (Babylon, Persia, Hellenism, Rome).

No. Lots of Jewish works were composed in the lingua franca that was Greek.

No. Even the ancient geographers made egregious mistakes in geography, and the Marcan mistakes (if such they are; there is debate on some of them) are generally to be found in Galilee.

The first bit is no more unexpected in Mark than, say, in Exodus 32.7-10. The second bit does not describe the gospel of Mark that I happen to know.

Yes, inasmuch as those pagan themes had already been adopted into Judaism before Mark was penned (see Philo, for example, or the apocryphal books).

Again, this does not seem to describe the gospel of Mark with which I am familiar. Perhaps some examples might help.

Ben.

No Robots

4.1 The Word, Logos, is not found in Mark. It is found only in the Prologue of John. It is a later Alexandrian addition. No reference to it is found outside the prologue, and the writer did not dare to put it as coming from the lips of Christ.

4.2 Please provide a reference for any descending and ascending God in Mark.

4.3 Jews had their own concept of the underworld. See Sheol and Gehenna.

No Robots

Burridge has come under considerable fire for his refusal to acknowledge the Gospels as essentially Jewish literature. He attempts to deal with this criticism in his second edition (Chap. 11, "Reactions and Responses"), but concludes that there is ample room for continued study and debate.

spamandham

I agree it's meaningless, but that's part of the point I was trying to make.

I don't see Exodus 32.7-10 as anti-Jewish, I see it as anti-pagan. In Mark, Jesus attacks the Jewish aspects of Judaism, and Mark goes as far as having Jesus effectively killed by Jews (though historically absurd, it depicts Pilate as being forced into it by an agry mob-o-Jews).

In regard to friendliness to Rome, Pilate is depicted as practically a saint. Mark goes out of his way to have Jesus tell his followers to pay their taxes to Rome. Jesus hangs out with tax collectors. A Roman rather than a Jew first recognizes Jesus' divinity (15:39).

One is enough. Jesus refers to god not only as his father, but as "our" father. Such intimacy is a far cry from the Jewish god that strikes you dead if you accidentally touch the ark of the covenant to keep it from falling.