luminous

Split from here. ~FM~


:wide: What??? Are you saying that you have to throw out logic in order to be of the true faith? Every decision that's made is made by logic. It's either good logic or flawed logic. Can you please explain to me how you can make a decision without using your reasoning ability? And if you make all decisions by logic, whether good or flawed, isn't the basis of all decisions logic? How can you base your faith only on the Spirit without using your logic to make the decision to believe? :huh: Your statement makes no sense to me. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but please explain. Without logic, talking about truth or God is meaningless IMO.

jdlongmire

No. One does not have to throw out logic - one must understand logic in context.

Logic is not necessary for faith - faith is a gift from God - logic is the fruit of the intellect - faith is supra-logical.

Logic can and should accentuate faith, but is not necessary for faith to be efficacious.

Biff the unclean

So you do actually shit-can logic in favor of "faith".
But even you obviously understand how foolish this is because it shows "faith" to be nothing but gullibility or you wouldn't torture logic so.
Do you think you fool anyone who is reading such weasel-lydouble talk as you just posted?

luminous

If logic isn't necessary for faith, and faith is only a gift from God, then are you willing to take your argument to the logical conclusion and say that non-christians don't believe because God doesn't bless them with this gift?

Also if logic isn't necessary for faith, then why does Paul evangelize? Why does Jesus reason with the Jews? Why does Paul reason with the gentiles? Romans is a book that relies heavily on logic and step-by-step arguments. Why? If faith is "supra-logical", why would we debate atheists using logical arguments? Why would we appeal to apologetics? It seems obvious to me that when evangelism takes place, preachers always attempt to answer the question "Why should I believe"? with an appeal to logic. Because of ___________ or because of ______________.

Lastly if faith is only a gift from God, then how is God justified in sending people to hell? Afterall, why didn't he just give everybody the gift of faith?

luminous

"one must understand logic in context." Do you mean that logic is irrelevant to becoming a Christian and that logic only takes faith to another level?

Quetzalcoatl

Thank you Liviu. If more Christians were willing like you to call other believers on obvious nonsense then people will look upon Christianity in a more favorable light. In my field if a scientist make a mistake or does something “unethical�? he is called on it. Sadly there seem to be a taboo on questioning religious dogma. If one is seeking truth then all beliefs are open to question no matter how personal or sensitive.

Again thanks.

jdlongmire

Mark 4


Logical thinking -

35On that day, when evening had come, he said to them, "Let us go across to the other side." 36And leaving the crowd, they took him with them in the boat, just as he was. And other boats were with him. 37And a great windstorm arose, and the waves were breaking into the boat, so that the boat was already filling. 38But he was in the stern, asleep on the cushion. And they woke him and said to him, "Teacher, do you not care that we are perishing?"

Faith is supra logical -

39And he awoke and rebuked the wind and said to the sea, "Peace! Be still!" And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. 40He said to them, "Why are you so afraid? Have you still no faith?"

jdlongmire

basically? yes


The role of logic is the mind part of:

Matthew 22:37
And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

jdlongmire

The role of evangelism is to preach the Gospel - those whom God has chosen will respond to the Gospel - sometimes the Lord uses logic, sometimes emotion - both are lessor elements to the movement of the Spirit - within and without that calls the Elect to their faith in Christ.

God is justified to send ALL to hell "All have sinned and fallen short..."

He has withheld His wrath because of His mercy - I believe because He understands the potential of every person to accept His sovereignty and not find equality with God something to be grasped - the nature of Original Sin and the key to the life of Christ. Those with the potential - He gives faith.

Romans 12:3
For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Luke 17:5
The apostles said to the Lord, "Increase our faith!"

Triple Six

So an obviously false story proves it all?

Unless I have somehow missed out on the hundreds of other verified cases of weather control.:rolling: